Multiple Fast Healing abilities from different source

[irdeggman]

The only evidence against presented so far is a Monster Entry from an unspecified Dungeon location. That is pretty poor evidence!

No the only evidence presented so far "for it stacking" is a perceived lack of evidence to the contrary.

The feat mentioned specifically states it stacks if the feat is taken multiple times (sort of like the way toughness so states.

The only way a feat can be taken multiple times is if the feat so states, now using you logic this iis an untruth and that any feat can be taken mutliple times unless it specifically states it can't.

Note that the overweighing factor here is that it is a not a "+" to anything it is a flat out number. It is not a "bonus" so they do not stack unless it specifies otherwise.

5 and another 5 is still 5, whereas +5 and +5 is normally +10.

Just because SR and DR specifically state they do not stack does not remove the mathematic error in the logic that when one states they should stack.

IMO the statements for SR and DR are made because the questions came up too frequently to not address - probably because there are more ways for PCs to get those two than there are fast healing.

 

[sukael]

I asked what you thought would happen if the line was not there and you said that if the line was not there it would certainly stack.

You didn't bother to read the full sentence.

If it didn't have the line about not stacking, it would certainly stack... with any magic items or nonpermanent magical effects that either give you fast healing or improve your existing fast healing. (That is to say, things with the same dual clauses as the feat.)

 

[jaelis]

Actually Slaved, how do you rule in the case of a character with Improved Evaision from more than one source? Half damage or quarter damage on a failed save?

 

[Slaved]

irdeggman, Fast Healing is not a modifier to a roll or a check so the Stacking rules provided do not count. Other options such as Spell Resistance and Damage Reduction talk about them only applying the best one out of the bunch. Fast Healing does not have this text.

In fact, Fast Healing says that unless otherwise specified it works just like Natural Healing. I see no reason to not let Fast Healing and Natural Healing work at the same time.

Using my logic since there are feats that talk about how they may be taken multiple times then any feat which does not say so is unable to be taken multiple times.

Using the logic of some here if there was a Monster Entry somewhere that took Weapon Focus (Claw) twice and got a +2 bonus then that would mean all feats may be taken multiple times and the results would stack.

I see no reason why having Fast Healing from multiple sources would not all work at the same time. Having Fast Healing 2 and Fast Healing 3 would not give Fast Healing 5 but the character would heal a total of 5 Hit Points if they were down by enough.

 

[Slaved]

You didn't bother to read the full sentence.

I read it. It does not change what I said. I asked if the line was removed whether or not they would all work and you said yes. Then you later said that yes was the opposite of what you said and now you have reposted you saying yes again.

 

[sukael]

I read it. It does not change what I said. I asked if the line was removed whether or not they would all work and you said yes. Then you later said that yes was the opposite of what you said and now you have reposted you saying yes again.

I said yes in certain circumstances. Very, very few instances of the fast healing ability fit these circumstances.

 

[Slaved]

And where in the rules are you working from to find the circumstances where your answer will be no?

 

[moritheil]

I see no reason to not let Fast Healing and Natural Healing work at the same time.

You keep repeating that. Where has anyone argued against that specifically?

I see no reason why having Fast Healing from multiple sources would not all work at the same time. Having Fast Healing 2 and Fast Healing 3 would not give Fast Healing 5 but the character would heal a total of 5 Hit Points if they were down by enough.

Can you tell us what the difference is between fast healing that heals you for 5 hit points per round, and fast healing 5? As far as I can tell, the difference is that you claim that one is not fast healing 5 and the other is.

Using the logic of some here if there was a Monster Entry somewhere that took Weapon Focus (Claw) twice and got a +2 bonus then that would mean all feats may be taken multiple times and the results would stack.

Who has said that here? If you're referring to this:

How so?

DR and SR do not stack and specify so. This is a good thing for the argument that there is a general principle of nonstacking for two reasons:

1. They are examples that don't stack.
2. Even though they do specifically call out that they don't stack, there are other things that don't stack that do not call it out. We therefore have examples that calling things out does NOT imply that the general principle is contrary. If it were not for DR and SR then your "called example" distinction might be a valid argument that fast healing automatically stacks because it is not called out. But with DR and SR we see that it is arbitrary whether or not it is called out.

Then I suggest you re-read it.

 

[Slaved]

You keep repeating that. Where has anyone argued against that specifically?

People have said that it is obvious that Fast Healing is unable to work at the same time as another Fast Healing even though nothing says so. The Fast Healing entry does actually say that it works just like Natural Healing except where specified otherwise. I believe that Fast Healing and Natural Healing would work at the same time because of this but using what others have said then they must disagree with it.

Can you tell us what the difference is between fast healing that heals you for 5 hit points per round, and fast healing 5? As far as I can tell, the difference is that you claim that one is not fast healing 5 and the other is.

Your question is asking what is the difference between Fast Healing 5 and Fast Healing 5? Why would you ask that?

Who has said that here?

Earlier in the thread a Monster Entry was given as proof as to why Fast Healing does not work concurrently. Following the same logic if there was a Monster Entry that used the example I gave earlier then it would work as I stated.

 

[Thurbane]

But I asked for a rule.

I would really rather have rules.

How about this then - since we can't find a source that specifically contradicts your point, in your games, then the rule can be that fast healing stacks.

For the other 99.9% of us, we'll go with the precedents and spirit-of-the-rules that clearly indicate that they shouldn't stack.

No problemo.