Multiweapon Defense

[Coredump]

It does exactly what your DM was afraid of, it makes the multi-arm fighter even more powerful. (of course, just +1AC more powerful....but on top of the extra attacks...)

 

[amazingshafeman]

You're right, but posessing two arms does that by itself anyway. The ECL hit helps protect against that, too. In the case of a thri-kreen character, a level 1 fighter TK will have 3 feats, 2d8 + 1d10 hp, a +3 BAB, +3 natural armor, and starting equipment (which may mean crappy armor depending on the campaign and DM). A normal lvl 4 fighter would have 4 feats, 10 + 3d10 hp, a +4 BAB, and an average of 5400 gp in equipment. Overall, I'd lean toward the fighter having the advantage because of the heavy emphasis the game puts on magic items.

 

[Prism]

You're right, but posessing two arms does that by itself anyway. The ECL hit helps protect against that, too. In the case of a thri-kreen character, a level 1 fighter TK will have 3 feats, 2d8 + 1d10 hp, a +3 BAB, +3 natural armor, and starting equipment (which may mean crappy armor depending on the campaign and DM). A normal lvl 4 fighter would have 4 feats, 10 + 3d10 hp, a +4 BAB, and an average of 5400 gp in equipment. Overall, I'd lean toward the fighter having the advantage because of the heavy emphasis the game puts on magic items.

Your starting equipment is based upon your ECL not class level. Even if your DM doesn't use this rule, starting equipment has only a short term effect and once you start adventuring you would normally catch up.

 

[Coredump]

You're right, but posessing two arms does that by itself anyway. The ECL hit helps protect against that, too. In the case of a thri-kreen character, a level 1 fighter TK will have 3 feats, 2d8 + 1d10 hp, a +3 BAB, +3 natural armor, and starting equipment (which may mean crappy armor depending on the campaign and DM). A normal lvl 4 fighter would have 4 feats, 10 + 3d10 hp, a +4 BAB, and an average of 5400 gp in equipment. Overall, I'd lean toward the fighter having the advantage because of the heavy emphasis the game puts on magic items.

Well... you are missing a few things.

First, a TK/F1 has an ECL of 5, not 4. (2HD+2LA+1Ftr) So you should be comparing it to a Ftr 5. OTOH, your last conclusion is erroneuos, since GP/lvl is determined by ECL, not class level; so they should have the same amount of magic/equipment.

TK/Ftr1 gets 3 feats. (human)Ftr5 gets 6 feats
*but* in 5 levels, it becomes 6 vs. 8 *and* the TK gets a racial feat the fighter can't easily get.
TK/Ftr1 has 18HP. H/Ftr5 gets 32HP
*but* in 5 levels that becomes 45 vs 59, and the TK is much harder to hit
TK/Ftr1 gets +3BAB, and the H/Ftr5 gets +4
*but* the TK gets a +1 from str bonus, or a +2 from Dex, so it is at least equal.
AC: the TK will have a +5 AC advantage over the human (NA+dex) At level 5, that is huge. And even at level 10 it is a big deal.

So, from the items you listed, the Ftr5 has the advantage, especially in HP, though the TK AC will take care of part of that.

But you left out a few things....
The TK can attack unarmed, and get 5 attacks at 1d4 each, plus poisen bite. The human gets one attack a 1d3 non-lethal, and provoke AoO. Or spend a feat and get 1d3 lethal, and no AoO.
The TK also gets Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat, and it is much easier for him to have an 'open hand' to use. human can spend two feats (one plus above feat) to get this.
The TK gets +1 damage from higher str.
The TK gets Darkvision 60', human can spend a feat and get it at 5'
The TK gets to spend one feat, and get 4 attacks at -2, the human spends a feat and can only get 2 attacks at -2
The TK can also bite at -5
The TK also gets poisen on the bite.
The TK is immune to sleep, charm person, dominate person, etc.
The TK gets to move 40', the human can spend a feat to get 35'
The TK gets a +30 to jump, *and* the modifier for moving 40'
The Tk gets screwed on skills, except for hide/jump/languages. but otherwise....
And if that wasn't enough.... TK can cast chameleon, know direction, psionic displacement, and metaphysical claw.

And you want to convince your DM that the TK also needs

The TK takes a feat and gets +2AC, the human takes the same feat and gets +1AC

 

[Omegaxicor]

Ouch, putting it like that Humans are obsolete

I agree with Patryn maybe add a BAB prerequisite to that but I have three questions

1) If you're not the DM in your game, why are you trying to change things s/he has already said s/he doesn't agree with?

2) Aren't races with multiple limbs better by design, a human with six arms is better than a human with two arms? The feat needs to be harder to obtain but since I'm new to D&D I'm not sure what would balance it, maybe you need a Con of 15+ (Because you have to concentrate on keeping track multiple opponents and the Concentrate skill uses Constitution ability modifier)

3) Why do you need to specify that MWD needs three+ hands when MWF has that prerequisite and MWD has MWF as a prerequisite?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Welcome to ENWorld! This thread is 5 years old! Please check the dates of the last post before you respond in the future. And coredump's comparison is extremely flawed. Believe me, human is better than Thri-Kreen in any game.

 

[Dandu]

Well, human's better than Thri-Keen unless you want to make a ton of attacks every round.

It's the superior race in a general sense.

 

[Omegaxicor]

D'oh I didn't see that, I was just reading the posts

Humans are better than Thri-Kreen mostly because they have the extra feat which allows them to be more flexible, but having four arms makes a TK fighter appealing even if you would miss most of the time

why was there no conclusion of the feat, I would like to know what to do to the prerequisites to balance it