D&D 4E My faith for 4e crumbles

[Baby Samurai]

Even Dragon mag's stuff, which said it was "100% official content" got vetoed because it was a magazine, not an actual book.

True, and often it was because players would stick whatever issue of Dragon that they wanted to use material from under their DM's nose, point at the 100% Official Content label, and say "See, I can take it!"

 

[Midknightsun]

Honestly, I'm really not too worried. I've been playing since 1st edition, and as with all things, change is inevitable, though I do find the sudden non renewal of licenses to be a bit annoying-- Just not enough to have a panic attack about it. I have my hands in enough other gaming systems that if 3.5 does crash and burn because of WotC's current move, I won't be too distraught. . . .besides, I have truckloads of material as it is even for 3.5. New stuff really isn't a concern for me at this point. Businesses do what they will do. . . .whether it ends up utlimately being a good decision or not, time will tell. But I think D&D will survive it either way in some form. Whether individuals are happy with that form or not, is . . . well, dependent on the individual.

As for 4e, when (and if) it ever comes, I hope they do manage to streamline it a bit. I love 3.5, but the combat system is pretty bloated.

 

[Desdichado]

I'm with Mistwell here--the biggest step backwards in the hobby to date has been Courtney Solomon's D&D movie. Next to that, nothing that's ever happened to D&D registers as more than a minor speedbump.

 

[RFisher]

The OGL/d20L thing created some strong companies, because they had to be strong to survive it. It also taught them to work together.

I don't think a lack of liberal licensing for a new D&D edition would hurt these companies as much as the OGL & d20L helped them. Arguably they were never going to reach the Wizards customers who don't see past Wizards, & they've already made a name for themselves among those customers the d20L did bring to them. In fact, increasing the differentiation between them & Wizards might actually help them at this point. Especially if Wizards takes--as some posit--a new D&D edition in directions that some people feel is more away from what they'd call a role-playing game.

Using the OGL d20 game (not "The d20 System(tm)") (both modern & fantasy), the True20 system, M&M, OGL RuneQuest, C&C, &c.; continuing to work together; increasing co-operation...

I'm starting to get excited about a possible closed D&D 4e. (^_^)

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Indeed. While they don't always have everything you want in stock, they usually get the major releases very soon - and once they do have something in stock, you usually receive your order the day after you ordered it (unless you ordered it after the post offices have closed).

Actually, they're their own post office as far as I know.

And if you don't find something, you can always ask them whether they could get it.

Yeah, that's for the advice (I guess I was spoiled by the Spiel'0X's in Essen)...

Actually, unless you get some special offers, the regular Dragonworld prices are not much worse than the prices you get in Essen nowadays (often, Dragonworld's actually cheaper - that's why I've been taking a list of Dragonworld prices to Essen for the last couple of years.)

 

[Korgoth]

Does anyone know about a bigger step backwards in the history of RPG?

Sure. Please be kind enough to bear in mind that I initially embraced 3E and gave both 3E and 3.5E a try, playing in several campaigns and running one myself.

I think that 3rd Edition is the biggest, or second biggest, step backwards. It's tricky because it shares a lot of the same words as previous editions, like "strength" and "level" and "elf", but it really isn't the same game. It has very different base assumptions and a very different play experience.

Perhaps the biggest step was the ousting of Gary Gygax from TSR. That's about when TSR started to head downhill, imho, and probably what I consider the devastation of the D&D hobby can be traced back to that event.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Perhaps the biggest step was the ousting of Gary Gygax from TSR. That's about when TSR started to head downhill, imho, and probably what I consider the devastation of the D&D hobby can be traced back to that event.

QFT

 

[Jolly Giant]

I think the word for that is "apophenia." Seeing the Virgin Mary in the french toast, etc.

She was in my corn flakes this morning. She said 4e will be released next Wednesday. Just after tea-time.


Edit: She also mentioned something about 4e meaning the Apocalypse is near.

 

[papastebu]

I haven't read all posts, this thread, but I'm not worried about any of it. To my perceptions, WotC is the company that saved D&D. Whatever form it has taken and will take in future editions is irrelevant, because if I start making blanket statements about what I will and won't do in the future, then I will have taken HUGE steps back in my life--who wants to be in HIGH SCHOOL again, for cryin' out unprintably? Aside from that, Wizards of the Coast has every right to do whatever they choose with their stuff.
That said, if WotC puts walls around D&D again, hopefully the game will be inside just one wall, not several divisions within a company, and they won't stop releasing new content just to be spiteful to previous owners, like some people did previously.
I have no objections to a company trying to protect its interests through consolidation, because I think that the money-minded people in that company know where their interests lie: if there are no new products, there will be no consumers, and no new money on a proven seller. The game-minded people in the company have the same goals as the money-minded ones, if for different reasons.
I will definitely be sad if D&D goes away, if for no other reason--and there are plenty of other reasons--than simple nostalgia. I don't really believe it will, though, as I stated above.
I say, "Rest easy and let it happen. There's precious little to be done about it anyway, and no profit is gained through worry."

 

[gizmo33]

I think that 3rd Edition is the biggest, or second biggest, step backwards.

Of course.

Here's how I rank them:
1. Gygax leaving
2. Renaming "Deities and Demigods" into "Legends and Lore"
3. Renaming demons and devils
4. 3E
5. 3.5E
6. 4E
7. 4.5E
etc.

See the pattern?

Seems to me that this has always been about change. That's not to say that new stuff is always an improvement over old stuff. But I tend to find that people's default feeling is negative when it comes to something changing. "The game has a different feel." and all of that.

4E is going to have to succeed and be a good game or people won't play it. Folks who are desperate to explain why their minority opinion is valid might be tempted to reason from the "3E fans are mindless drones" perspective because it feels alot better that having to face the possibility that 3E fans see something or understand something that they don't.

I'm looking forward to the irony of 3E grognards. "The day Monte Cook left WotC was the saddest day..."