D&D 4E My faith for 4e crumbles

[Kae'Yoss]

I love D&D 3e. Not just because of the vast improvements in the rules, but also because it was made public. Other people could use the rules to create their own material. While it did produce a lot of rubbish, there were many things out there that were simply superb.

Now it seems that Wizards made a U-Turn and wants to fight that creativity with all their might. They want to keep D&D for themselves. *My* preciousss. Does anyone know about a bigger step backwards in the history of RPG?

I would wager my donkey that the next edition of D&D will not allow any third party to produce any content. Clearly Wizards had enough of being upstaged by others who proved that they know what they do.

Now that Wizards is getting rid of these sources, I can only surmise that they gave up on trying to make an ever better game. They clearly intent to get a D&D monopoly, so people have to take their stuff or not play anything at all.


But unless they're able to revoke the OGL, I think they have reckoned without their host.

 

[WayneLigon]

I think, if they actually do such a thing, they are much more concerned with the 'lot of rubbish' part of that first statement than the five or six third party publishers that produced something of quality that equalled or surpassed WoTC's internal stuff. I'm thinking the glut of d20 product that initially appeared and then didn't move scared a lot of buyers away from anything related to d20, including Wizard's own products.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Just out of curiousity, and I mean no disrespect, but...why?

Events happening in close proximity does not mean that they are related.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Just out of curiousity, and I mean no disrespect, but...why?

Events happening in close proximity does not mean that they are related.

My pattern recognition circuits just kicked in.

I think, if they actually do such a thing, they are much more concerned with the 'lot of rubbish' part of that first statement than the five or six third party publishers that produced something of quality that equalled or surpassed WoTC's internal stuff.

Currently, we saw how they moved against Paizo, which is certainly not one of the rubbish peddlers.

 

[Maggan]

Tey want to keep D&D for themselves. *My* preciousss. Does anyone know about a bigger step backwards in the history of RPG?

The biggest step backwards I have seen have been connected to the press oversensationalising a murder here in Sweden, blaming it on RPGs. That was huge, and proved that we are still viewed as a fair target for speculation.

Also, the release of Kult resulted in a huge backlash here, effectively removing rpgs from the toy shops. That is still hurting the producers and the hobby here in Sweden, and it happened 10 years ago.

To us, the possibility of 4e not being open would not even register on that scale.

/M

 

[WhatGravitas]

I'm thinking the glut of d20 product that initially appeared and then didn't move scared a lot of buyers away from anything related to d20, including Wizard's own products.

However, most people only know about WotC's products at all... only more invested gamers use other RPG material, and these can usually distinguish between icky glut and gems, furthermore, "the glut" has died and left some great producers (Green Ronin, Mongoose, Paizo, Necromancer, Goodman Games & Co.) - so it is very improbable, that a new glut occurs - low-quality produces have burnt their fingers and high quality produces will still produce high quality stuff (after a short time of transition, after they've completely learned the ropes of the system).

Additionally, the novelty of the first OGL is gone - many publishers jumped on the d20 bandwagon, because it was brand-new. Shiny. A new opportunity. This time, it's just d20 again (I assume that 4E will stick to d20) - just a new shape, incarnation, whatever - nothing special, except being the market leader in RPGs. Just like now.

Thus the decision will rather go down to "Do we want the capability of other people to mess with our 4E?"
We don't know.

But we have a OGL license out there... and you cannot copyright mechanics. It is completely possible, that a publisher produces a OGL-compliant system, totally compatible to 4E - just like OSRIC in relation to 1E. And we know the "Pocket Player's Handbook", which is essentially a crunch rehash of the PHB. This will, after some time, happen with 4E as well, perhaps even more if it's closed content.

D&D is huge, and I think many publishers take an interest in a D&D compatible thing, therefore, I expect such a system.

But then, even if it doesn't happen, we can stick to the current OGL-prodructs, we have a great variety between things like True20 and Iron Heroes. I'm happy with my mutant-bizarro-d20-Arcana-Evolved-D&D-hybrid.

@Maggan: Never heard of that. Ugh. That sounds bad. And I thought it's hard to find RPG-stuff in Germany without amazon... :/

 

[Goddess FallenAngel]

Does anyone know about a bigger step backwards in the history of RPG?

Hmm... the last several years of TSR come to mind.

I think, if they actually do such a thing, they are much more concerned with the 'lot of rubbish' part of that first statement than the five or six third party publishers that produced something of quality that equalled or surpassed WoTC's internal stuff. I'm thinking the glut of d20 product that initially appeared and then didn't move scared a lot of buyers away from anything related to d20, including Wizard's own products.

Actually, if I recall correctly, WOTC anticipated and expected the glut back at the debut of OGL, and the fact that most of those 'publishers' folded after the first year or so. My Google-fu is weak, and I couldn't find the press release(s) in question, but I do remember that being mentioned by WOTC when they first announced OGL.

If they thought that it would 'scare buyers away', why would they do it? And if it was scaring them away, why didn't they pull OGL? I think that it actually increased the number of buyers, by increasing awareness of the D20 system.

Personally, I hope that they keep it for 4E - there's a lot of junk out there, but there is also a lot of gems that are we would have never seen without help of the OGL.

 

[Thanee]

You have a donkey?

Bye
Thanee

 

[GreatLemur]

The biggest step backwards I have seen have been connected to the press oversensationalising a murder here in Sweden, blaming it on RPGs. That was huge, and proved that we are still viewed as a fair target for speculation.

Also, the release of Kult resulted in a huge backlash here, effectively removing rpgs from the toy shops. That is still hurting the producers and the hobby here in Sweden, and it happened 10 years ago.

Dang. That's even worse than the Satanic panic we got hit with in the US, back in the 1980s.

But then, even if it doesn't happen, we can stick to the current OGL-prodructs, we have a great variety between things like True20 and Iron Heroes. I'm happy with my mutant-bizarro-d20-Arcana-Evolved-D&D-hybrid.

Yeah, that's my thinking, as well. If 4E is closed content, I'll probably just take it as my excuse to finally rejigger D&D v.3.5, Iron Heroes, and True20 into the perfect system I keep wishing for. If only I can actually find anyone to play the thing once I'm done with it...

 

[Desdichado]

Yeah, that's my thinking, as well. If 4E is closed content, I'll probably just take it as my excuse to finally rejigger D&D v.3.5, Iron Heroes, and True20 into the perfect system I keep wishing for. If only I can actually find anyone to play the thing once I'm done with it...

Which is why--all our posturing aside--we tend to end up following the pack after all.

I've had pretty good luck getting players for my jiggered d20 system, using elements from I don't know how many different books and games, but that was a bit of a perfect storm. I don't know that I could even get the same group (which is less than 50% the same people as when I did it) convinced to do it again.