My Paladin killed a child molester (and now my DM wants to take away my powers!)

[Agemegos]

(a) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution that the actor engaged in the
proscribed conduct because he was compelled to do so by threat of
imminent death or serious bodily injury to himself or another

Serious bodily injury can be any flavor of assault. from an beating to sexual attack. Note, no wording of "no alternative" or requirement of taking other actions.

What does 'compelled' mean in this context?

b. Deadly Force
i. Must believe it is necessary to protect against death, serious bodily harm, kidnapping or sexual intercourse

What does 'necessary' mean in this context?

 

[Agemegos]

If you can't kill someone in the process of doing evil, then the entire game falls apart.

Not in my experience. In my experience it becomes more interesting, challenging, and engaging as it takes on issues to deal with beyond the simply tactical. But of course other people feel differently. YMMV. YDWYDWP.

 

[ejja_1]

I figured everybody else weighed in on this, so why not.

I would have thrown the player a party and carried him around on my shoulders through town. This of course after the body of the pervert was completely dismembered defiled and destroyed.

Also, this is why I tend not to use alignment in my game......

 

[Agemegos]

And where is it said that the Paladin should have an orderly trial for every eveildoer he finds?

It isn't. If you would like to argue that this was an act of just war then make that case and I will consider it.

I agree that 'our' side brought up the Judge and Jury statement, and while the Paladin does have those powers, it says, IIRC, nowhere that they also iclude a courtroom session, or that those rights would have to be invoked every time the Paladin vanquishes an evildoer.

I am not calling for the pomp of a courtroom. Just for some sort of orderly proceeding that indicates respect for the authority of judge and jury, allows for the possibility of a defence that the hot-blooded paladin might not have thought of, and demonstrates in public that the proceeding is just, that the innocent have nothing to fear.

'Your side' brought up the 'judge, jury, and executioner' thing and the 'bring law to lawless lands' thing. They were right to do so. And it is these very capacities that Vindicator's character dropped his bundle. He didn't grossly violate the paladin's code. But he did fail to discharge his duty as a paladin. And he disrespected the authority of the judge and jury (by treating it as a licence). And he acted to promote Chaos in the community. All this could be justified if there had been an urgent necessity. But there wasn't.

 

[Numion]

It isn't. If you would like to argue that this was an act of just war then make that case and I will consider it.

I don't know what you are talking about. PHB doesn't differentiate Paladins Code of Conduct in time of war vs. time of peace. So, war has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

I am not calling for the pomp of a courtroom. Just for some sort of orderly proceeding that indicates respect for the authority of judge and jury, allows for the possibility of a defence that the hot-blooded paladin might not have thought of, and demonstrates in public that the proceeding is just, that the innocent have nothing to fear.

So it is your opinion that a courtroom is needed for an orderly proceeding? I beg to differ. Paladins decision about the punishment can be according to his Code whether or not there is a courtroom or witnesses present. I would even go as far to say that it would be moot for the God to appoint Paladins if they can't function outside of the secular courts - otherwise the secular courts would be all that is needed.

'Your side' brought up the 'judge, jury, and executioner' thing and the 'bring law to lawless lands' thing. They were right to do so. And it is these very capacities that Vindicator's character dropped his bundle. He didn't grossly violate the paladin's code. But he did fail to discharge his duty as a paladin. And he disrespected the authority of the judge and jury (by treating it as a licence). And he acted to promote Chaos in the community. All this could be justified if there had been an urgent necessity. But there wasn't.

Innocent child isn't an urgent necessity? Whatever..

DMs have a zillion ways to screw their players over. Are you sure you need this to be one of those too? Paladin executing a child molester .. yeah, sounds like a horrible violation of the Paladins code. Take his abilities away permanently. You win.

 

[Agemegos]

So it is your opinion that a courtroom is needed for an orderly proceeding?

No. I have several times said not. In fact, the very piece of my last post that you quoted just before writing this made it clear that I do not.

Innocent child isn't an urgent necessity?

An urgent necessity to do something, yes. In some circumstances an urgent necessity to use lethal force. But in these circumtances there was no necessity to use lethal force.

Take his abilities away permanently. You win.

Actually, I don't think his paladin status ought to be taken away at all. Why don't you try reading posts instead of just flaming them?

 

[Liolel]

Although this does not contirbute to the discussion, I was very surprised when I was looking at a snippet of the thread title from the front page of the message boards and it said "My paladin killed a child" leaving out the important part.

Just trying to lighten up a tense thread.

 

[drunkmoogle]

Although this does not contirbute to the discussion, I was very surprised when I was looking at a snippet of the thread title from the front page of the message boards and it said "My paladin killed a child" leaving out the important part.

Just trying to lighten up a tense thread.

You just rolled a one on your perform check. You cannot lighten this thead up... it's a paldin thread. You need epic level skills .

/sidenote... I originally posted that as Perform:Oral... and didn't think it weird for a few seconds...
//Tries to lighten up the crowd too
///Hates paladin threads

 

[Torm]

You've probably all seen this already, but a verdict has been reached in the other thread. Those of us who participated are eager for feedback from Vindicator and\or his DM. I figured I would ask here, directly, in case neither of them had yet been into that thread - I have not seen Vindicator post there at all, nor seen him post HERE in quite a few pages......

 

[SALADIN THE JUST]

Although this does not contirbute to the discussion, I was very surprised when I was looking at a snippet of the thread title from the front page of the message boards and it said "My paladin killed a child" leaving out the important part.

Just trying to lighten up a tense thread.

HAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! Lighten a Paladin Thread???!!! Dost thee have a full grip on thy faculties, my friend? Try a Thread dedicated to the Bard, Rogue or some such. As mentioned by another, thou wouldst need an c Level Feat to Lighten a Thread dedicated to the Paladin. Carry on my breathren. As the Mighty Torm has indicated most recently, we await the feedback from the Vindicator and his DM with regard to the reasoning and the ruling that was arrived at by the hallowed council that was most recently gathered within these Halls of Justice.