D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

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I (and many on this thread I suspect) don't view the different races lore as monolithic as you do. Saying halflings are happy farmers is a generality, not a baseline.
The PHB even gives us two other halfling cultures! There are city halflings and nomadic Halflings. The “classic” halfling may be hospitable but somewhat reclusive agrarians, but the thing that ties them all together is that they don’t ever build or take over the “shining city on the hill” or the “great hall full of wealth and grand history”, and they don’t have blood feuds with other cultures, so while great events effect them, they aren’t the focus of them.
 

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Yeah, as fas as I’m concerned WotC can spill as much ink as they like expanding halfling lore; I’ll use what I like and discard what I don’t.

What I would not like is if they reimagined the default concept of the halfling to make them “more interesting”. I’m a big fan of how they’re presented right now.
Exactly. They are what they should be, now. Changing them dramatically would be a mistake.
 

How many of those thousands of words were spent defending myself from strawmen, such as "you are trying to remove halflings from the game" or "you only like edgy, murderlord races" or something similar?

How many posts did I make in this thread alone defending myself against claims of arrogant elitism for stating that DnD has different goals and themes than Lord of the Rings? One of which promotes violent solutions and the accrual of power, and the other which is written with a sole purpose of showing the rejection of power to defeat evil?

Does this post count towards my thousands and thousands of words?

I beggar your belief. I enjoy discussion. I get easily wrapped up in responding to people even when intellectually I know it is a waste of time because it will only devolve into personal attacks and them telling me how my opinion is worthless and I shouldn't even waste my time considering any issue because they don't have that issue.

No, in my day to day time working on DnD, I don't even consider halflings. Now that I am in a discussion about them, I am discussing them. If I found a thread about Slaadi, I'd likely give my positions and how I back them up on that topic as well. Call me a liar with your ability to read my mind over the internet and declare that I must care deeply about this major schism based solely on the fact that I've spent time in this thread discussing it, but you would be wrong.
Yes. It all counts.
 

then why have any realism at all why not have no gravity or need for food or literally any grounding at all and just make everything an LSD trip?
You joke, but in a lot of ways you're just describing higher level adventuring.

There is no inherent virtue related to how closely you mirror earth reality in your D&D settings. That similarity is something that is adjusted to taste as any gaps or differences are easily papered over with some version of "it just doesn't work that way here" and "oh magic solved that issue years ago".

Historical parallels can be a useful tool, but they are also a trap.
 
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Intimidate does not have anything to do with fear. The only things that grants the Frightened condition are magical
You interpret a sea hag's "Horrific Appearance" or a dragon's "Frightful Presence" as a magical effect?

Like, a dragon is no longer scary if it's inside an anti-magic field? Weird...

Edit: Sorry for delving back into posts from days ago, but this really is one of the things I especially like about halflings that really does have an effect on game play.
 

Important to you. Not important in any objective sense.

“No support in the game itself” that passes muster according to your particular criteria. Not “no support” in any objective sense.

The primary attribute of the race that multiple people have told me is the reason they like the race... yeah, totally just important to me.

And, again, every time I ask I get told... "they just are and you wouldn't accept any reasons any ways". You guys can keep declaring you answered, but I still have not seen any answers to why halflings are overlooked.
 

The primary attribute of the race that multiple people have told me is the reason they like the race... yeah, totally just important to me.

And, again, every time I ask I get told... "they just are and you wouldn't accept any reasons any ways". You guys can keep declaring you answered, but I still have not seen any answers to why halflings are overlooked.
There have been a few reasons offered, but honestly? It’s not important. Divining the answer to this question is immensely important to you, I get it, but it’s just not that important to most of us (or to the designers, it would seem). We don’t need every last narrative trope justified within the fiction with “realistic” explanations so long as we find the narrative trope itself appealing.

So I’m afraid you’re barking up the wrong tree if your quest is to “prove” halflings are “broken”. This particular line of argument just doesn’t have that much purchase with most people.
 
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You’re only wrong insofar as you make sweeping and categorical claims about what’s “true”, “important”, “makes sense”, and other unverifiable absurdities. None of these claims can be supported because they’re all matters of perception and preference, not matters of fact. You started this conversation by telling people they were wrong and “part of the problem”.

No, that is not how I started this conversation.

And I never said that any person was part of the problem. I said the position put forth, and the viewpoint that came with it was part of the problem. I am getting very awfully tired of people making up things I said because they want to sweep aside what I am actually saying in favor of making me appear irrational.

You argued there is an undeniable “issue” with halflings, and refused to acknowledge there might be a rational basis for feeling otherwise.

Nope, completely wrong. I acknowledge that people like halfings. I have never said anyone is wrong for liking halfings. Never attacked people for liking halflings. I have actually asked people if they can go beyond "I like them because they are the overlooked and underestimated quiet person" and give me reasons they are overlooked and underestimated. The very fact I asked is recognizing there is likely a "rational basis" for that opinion.

Of course, in response I've recieved nothing but derision because I'm unwilling to accept that my views are absolute fact. A thing I don't think I've ever claimed, and that asking for other people to support other views would run counter to.

And anytime someone has explained the basis for their opinion, you’ve told them it’s not good enough or invalid for a variety of subjective reasons which you’ve framed as objective principles of good design and matters of inarguable importance. You’ve expressed your preference in terms of what’s good and true, not merely in terms of what you like; you’ve perceived any contradiction to this “truth” as an attack directed at you, not merely an objection to the absurd idea that your preferences are an impartial measure of what’s good.

You’re not wrong for having a preference though.

There are principles of good design. They exist. Just because you might not like those principles or you don't like that they may be critical of something you like doesn't mean they don't exist.

I have had many properties that I love lampooned for poor design or story or characterizations or dozens of other things. I've watched many a critic come down on something I love. I try very hard to always try and see if they have a point, and a lot of the time I've had to grimace, hold my nose and say "yeaaah, they have a point. That's pretty bad actually."

I don't think that I am some ultimate authority with perfect knowledge of objective truth, like you all keep trying to paint me as. But when I put forth a criticism and it is met, not with thoughtful discussion but with personal attacks to my character and declarations that I just hate the subject matter and couldn't understand it even if you explained.. when the explanations are so shallow that any follow up question is met with derision of how I can't accept any evidence... yeah. I get a little annoyed.

People are happy with hobbits? Fine. You are perfectly fine with having a preference. But, you aren't the only people with preferences, and some of us aren't satisified with hobbits. And in fact, feel like just continuing to copy Hobbits and never letting the concept grow is just boring and lazy.
 

I think there’s a fundamental misunderstanding here: doctorbadwolf doesn’t care about making you change your preference; he cares about having his preference acknowledged and respected (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, @doctorbadwolf).

To the extent that people are arguing that you’re wrong, it’s to discredit the idea that the way you’ve presented things is the way things MUST be done (thereby not leaving any room for differing opinions). I don’t think anyone would be so bold as to claim your ideas don’t represent one possible way things COULD be done. It’s not a way of doing things that most of us particularly like, but it is one (of many) reasonable and valid ways to go about depicting Halflings when worldbuilding.

Does that help you understand this conversation in a different light?

Not really, since I have never once told someone they can't like halflings or that liking them was wrong. If all he wanted was validition from me that he likes them and that's okay... I never stated differently.
 

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