Bardic Dave
Adventurer
One person in this thread has made a heck of a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions, and it’s not who you think it is.
D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races
- Thread starter Levistus's_Leviathan
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So I really wanted to read the whole thread (well... at least skim most of it) before adding my two cents, but yinz guys are adding material faster than I can get through it all!
You can add me to the mundane-halflings-are-totally-fine camp. I think adding layers of complex lore, and a formal role in society, and catalogs of artifacts, and whatever else would detract from their appeal.
I like that they are simple and unassuming even to the point that Yondalla doesn't know and doesn't seem to care where they came from. As a group they are just part of the scenery. As far as anyone knows they may literally be older than the hills.
But the fact that they are simple folk with simple tastes, doesn't mean that as individuals they are all shrinking violets. They clearly can be capable adventurers given the right motivation. I can understand someone having a hard time coming up with that motivation if a halfling-type personality or story isn't something they find interesting, but that's why there are lots of different character races and different character archetypes to choose from (or to choose to subvert).
I'm playing a halfling in my current game, and having a lot of fun. There is no aspect of his background that I think would benefit from a more complex halfling society. His interests begin and end with his relationship with his family, his village, his mentors, and the group of adventurers he now finds himself associated with.
You can add me to the mundane-halflings-are-totally-fine camp. I think adding layers of complex lore, and a formal role in society, and catalogs of artifacts, and whatever else would detract from their appeal.
I like that they are simple and unassuming even to the point that Yondalla doesn't know and doesn't seem to care where they came from. As a group they are just part of the scenery. As far as anyone knows they may literally be older than the hills.
But the fact that they are simple folk with simple tastes, doesn't mean that as individuals they are all shrinking violets. They clearly can be capable adventurers given the right motivation. I can understand someone having a hard time coming up with that motivation if a halfling-type personality or story isn't something they find interesting, but that's why there are lots of different character races and different character archetypes to choose from (or to choose to subvert).
I'm playing a halfling in my current game, and having a lot of fun. There is no aspect of his background that I think would benefit from a more complex halfling society. His interests begin and end with his relationship with his family, his village, his mentors, and the group of adventurers he now finds himself associated with.
Bardic Dave
Adventurer
You’re only wrong insofar as you make sweeping and categorical claims about what’s “true”, “important”, “makes sense”, and other unverifiable absurdities. None of these claims can be supported because they’re all matters of perception and preference, not matters of fact. You started this conversation by telling people they were wrong and “part of the problem”. You argued there is an undeniable “issue” with halflings, and refused to acknowledge there might be a rational basis for feeling otherwise. And anytime someone has explained the basis for their opinion, you’ve told them it’s not good enough or invalid for a variety of subjective reasons which you’ve framed as objective principles of good design and matters of inarguable importance. You’ve expressed your preference in terms of what’s good and true, not merely in terms of what you like; you’ve perceived any contradiction to this “truth” as an attack directed at you, not merely an objection to the absurd idea that your preferences are an impartial measure of what’s good.
You’re not wrong for having a preference though.
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Vaalingrade
Legend
I have no idea what any of this has to do with targeting a species because of their potential to breed PCs.
Bardic Dave
Adventurer
I think there’s a fundamental misunderstanding here: doctorbadwolf doesn’t care about making you change your preference; he cares about having his preference acknowledged and respected (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, @doctorbadwolf).
To the extent that people are arguing that you’re wrong, it’s to discredit the idea that the way you’ve presented things is the way things MUST be done (thereby not leaving any room for differing opinions). I don’t think anyone would be so bold as to claim your ideas don’t represent one possible way things COULD be done. It’s not a way of doing things that most of us particularly like, but it is one (of many) reasonable and valid ways to go about depicting Halflings when worldbuilding.
Does that help you understand this conversation in a different light?
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JiffyPopTart
Bree-Yark
You keep bouncing back and forth between two arguments that are related but not identical.
Your argument that halflings should have more official support/inclusion I agree with 100%. I think there is plenty of room on the table to spread around the fiction amongst all the different groups and come up with interesting stories involving them all.
Your argument that halflings make for poor PCs or PHB fodder because of their lack of inclusion or because of some perceived (by you) gap in lore that makes them nonsensical I disagree with 100%. I have included halflings in my campaign and players have played halflings without any trouble.
I would like to see more lore for them (agree with you) but do not find the amount of lore they have by default at all a problem (disagree with you).
I do not have to have official adventures or appearances by halflings for my game because.....I don't use prepublished campaign settings or adventures at all. I do steal bits and pieces from different settings, such as the Faerun Pantheon and warforged from Ebberon, but even in those cases I use what is written as a base from which to create my worlds reality.
I (and many on this thread I suspect) don't view the different races lore as monolithic as you do. Saying halflings are happy farmers is a generality, not a baseline. This doesn't preclude halfling evil cultists, muggers, clergy, inventors, wizards, or anything else a thinking being could pursue. There might be a halfling village who figured out how to make electricity from a dam....if that's what the story calls for. They could be at war with a keep of halflings who have decided to make a halfling kingdom by force who are in league with dwarven druids living in the woods and artificer tinker elves who hate the outdoors but build awesome runic plate armor.
Bardic Dave
Adventurer
Yeah, as fas as I’m concerned WotC can spill as much ink as they like expanding halfling lore; I’ll use what I like and discard what I don’t.
What I would not like is if they reimagined the default concept of the halfling to make them “more interesting”. I’m a big fan of how they’re presented right now.
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Mind of tempest
(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
then why have any realism at all why not have no gravity or need for food or literally any grounding at all and just make everything an LSD trip?
Mind of tempest
(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
no that has likely to do more with you having good friends and a regular game and dex being the monks main stat.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Reverse Gravity and featherfall Spells, Ring of Sustenance + Warforged, And the Far Realm.
Check check and check.
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