My problem with the "standard" level of magic

[DragonLancer]

I'll start with a quote, from my DMG: "... magic is prevalent enough in the world that it will be always be taken into account by smart individuals."
The book talks about hiring magic-users to detect invisible thief in the market, continual flame spells to provide for lights, town militia with a couple of wizards to provide defence from magic, and so on.

And thats why I prefer low-magic settings. The above comments do not fit in well with the idea of a medieval world that has magic & monsters. I know that sounds odd, but the way I look at the D&D game it is meant to be a representation of what we could expect to see dark ages Europe that has mages and dragons.

Theres no need for the game to be portrayed as a contempary world, using everything to break that suspension of disbelief.

Now, if a player character wants to hire himself out as a invisible thief detector, thats up to the player, but don't expect your usual mage NPC to do that. His studies are more important.

 

[Afrodyte]

I've the same thoughts over and over. Here is some of my solutions:

(snip)

- Wizards don't receive spells automatically after gaining a level, they have to find it somehow;

- Wizards are very rare and they don't like to share spells one with the other;

(snip)

I like these ideas, especially since it does something that makes adventuring worthwhile. Instead of being sort of a hamster wheel where you go adventuring so you can get good at adventuring so you can go adventuring some more, you can have a party based around something like this:

Wallace Wizard has just put his knowledge of enchanting magic weapons (magic weapon spell) to work, creating a magical blade to pay the local taxes for a few years. Now, he wants to learn how to summon spirits from beyond to protect him and give him knowledge. He does some research, some traveling, and some asking around and finds out that William Wizard XXV has the knowledge to teach him what he wants to learn. He seeks William to learn the secrets of summoning. William is reluctant to give his secrets away for free, not even to help mankind (or any other kind). But he does crave knowledge and power. He needs Extremely Rare Spell Component #27 so he may advance his own studies. Being a smart guy (he's a wizard, after all), and not terribly athletic or brave, he makes a bargain with Wallace. Wallace will retrieve ERSC 27, and William will teach Wallace some summoning spells. Wallace is in a terrible jam, for he's not even as athletic as William, and not half as brave. Aha! He can use some of the gems and exotic fabrics to hire somebody to help him. He makes a flyer and posts it on the town bulletin, and soon enough he gets some people.

 

[jmucchiello]

- Divinations. Big problem here. Some groups, upon getting Find the Path, Commune, Divination and the like can't even make a decision anymore without consulting spells for guidance. First try to push them away from the problem by having the enemy use the same spells on them. If that doesn't get your attention, then maybe the gods have a problem with mortals mettling with powerful divinations on a day to day basis.

I always like to have the deity in question ask the cleric about the church's teachings on self-reliance at this point. The spell should never give incorrect answers (unless the deity is truly Chaotic) but instead it should fail. The next time he tries to prepare the commune, his deity gives him atonement instead. That's fun stuff.

Also, spells like Mind Blank can be used. This can backfire, though. A recent game I played in, the players cast Mind Blank EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED DAY ON EVERY SINGLE PARTY MEMBER!! Anyway...

Yes, so you get one of the party members alone, have his kidnapped by 6 marilith to the abyss (must be someone in the abyss the party has annoyed by now). Good luck finding him. Commune - where is our friend? Answ: The veil of mind blank still hides him.

 

[mmadsen]

William is reluctant to give his secrets away for free, not even to help mankind (or any other kind). But he does crave knowledge and power. He needs Extremely Rare Spell Component #27 so he may advance his own studies. Being a smart guy (he's a wizard, after all), and not terribly athletic or brave, he makes a bargain with Wallace. Wallace will retrieve ERSC 27, and William will teach Wallace some summoning spells. Wallace is in a terrible jam, for he's not even as athletic as William, and not half as brave. Aha! He can use some of the gems and exotic fabrics to hire somebody to help him. He makes a flyer and posts it on the town bulletin, and soon enough he gets some people.

Most of this follows pretty naturally once you stop abstracting away the relationship between gold pieces and magical expenses. You have a few thousand gold pieces? Good for you. You still don't have the eye of newt and gorgon's blood you need to cast your spell -- and you don't know anyone who has fresh newt-eye for sale. Do you hire a band of sell-swords to retrieve it for you?