D&D 5E My Super Simple Idea for a Better Fighter

[Joshy]

Change Fighting Style so that it is no longer a choice. You just get different benefits based on what you are wielding.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Change Fighting Style so that it is no longer a choice. You just get different benefits based on what you are wielding.

Interesting.

I also thought about "stances" that you can switch between.

EDIT: I'll add, though, that most fighting styles are totally passive. You get various bonuses, but you take the same actions you'd take without them. (The only exception is Protection, and that consumes a reaction.). I was interested in a designing a sub-class that actually lets you do cool things.

 

[Joshy]

Interesting.

I also thought about "stances" that you can switch between.

EDIT: I'll add, though, that most fighting styles are totally passive. You get various bonuses, but you take the same actions you'd take without them. (The only exception is Protection, and that consumes a reaction.). I was interested in a designing a sub-class that actually lets you do cool things.

I made a few classes based around weapon styles. They each have two stances and four abilities. I'm working on consolidating them into a single class.

 

[Staffan]

Interesting idea. It’s another variant of situational mechanics, where the prerequisite “situation” is the fall of the die.

For the most part I don’t love it: it feels too abstract (“dissociative” some might say, although generally I don’t have a problem with mechanics that are thus disparagingly described) but also it gives the player no leeway to set up those situations. Not in the way that you might, for example, set up a situation where Shove becomes especially effective.

Here's how I see it: if you can do Cool Stuff all day long, said Stuff can't be all that Cool. If you want the Really Cool Stuff, there has to be some limit on how often you can use it, or you'll just use it all the time and then it just becomes silly and routine. For example, see the 3e fighter specializing in Spiked Chain, Combat Reflexes and Improved Trip, who'll knock down anyone getting near him and then step away. When the opponent stands up, they get another smack, and can't full-attack the fighter. That being as good a tactic as it is (even though there are counters) is silly, and the main problem is that it's an unlimited-use thing. Or, to use a 5e example, since getting into position to use the Rogue's Sneak attack is super easy, barely an inconvenience, it can't be all that strong. And indeed, a sneak attacking rogue deals more or less the same damage as an offense-focused fighter.

So, if you don't want people to do that kind of thing all the time, you need to put some limit on it. For example, you could limit the Cool Stuff by making it a limited resource. This is the path taken by 4e, where Cool Stuff is either an encounter power or a daily power, and by the 5e Battlemaster which limits the Cool Stuff by using superiority dice. But for some things, that can feel artificial, so instead you want to limit it situationally. But combat is fluid, and D&D abstracts a fair bit of it away. So using the attack roll as the trigger for what Cool Stuff you can do represents what openings you get to do your stuff.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Extra reactions would make things like reach broken, which turn out to be balanced in 5e because of the hard rule of only one reaction per round.

Reactions are cool conceptually, but the interruptions slow down gameplay.

Balancewise, it might be ok to spend the next action on a current extra reaction instead. Or get an extra reaction per short rest, or something like that.

I don't think that it would be problematic. There are plenty of spells that take effect when an enemy moves into their area and saves/damage interrupt the flow.
It would act like a less-powerful version of Spirit Guardians in effect, with smaller area and no slowing effect. If you feel that is too powerful for a martial class to be able to do at low levels, you could lock it behind level 6 maybe.

Giving a number of extra reactions equal to number of Extra Attacks is a commonly suggested tweak.

 

[Yaarel]

I don't think that it would be problematic. There are plenty of spells that take effect when an enemy moves into their area and saves/damage interrupt the flow.
It would act like a less-powerful version of Spirit Guardians in effect, with smaller area and no slowing effect. If you feel that is too powerful for a martial class to be able to do at low levels, you could lock it behind level 6 maybe.

Giving a number of extra reactions equal to number of Extra Attacks is a commonly suggested tweak.

The concerns about reaction bloat apply to everyone, mage and warrior alike.

In 3e, the brokenness of reach prevented Large player character concepts, despite their centrality in many reallife traditions.

In 5e, there have been no complaints about reach. The main reason for the 5e balance of reach turns out to be the limit of only one reaction per turn, which thus trivializes opportunity attacks by preventing multiple simultaneous ones.

Relatedly, the limit to one reaction helps each turn within a round flow quicker to the next turn.

 

[Staffan]

In 5e, there have been no complaints about reach. The main reason for the 5e balance of reach turns out to be the limit of only one reaction per turn, which thus trivializes opportunity attacks by preventing multiple simultaneous ones.

I think the main limit on reach in 5e is that you only get opportunity attacks when foes leave your reach. In 3e and 4e, you get them when opponents leave a threatened square – which means you get a free hit on anyone who approaches you. That's not the default state in 5e, and instead requires a feat (Polearm Mastery) plus using specific weaponry.

 

[Yaarel]

I think the main limit on reach in 5e is that you only get opportunity attacks when foes leave your reach. In 3e and 4e, you get them when opponents leave a threatened square – which means you get a free hit on anyone who approaches you. That's not the default state in 5e, and instead requires a feat (Polearm Mastery) plus using specific weaponry.

Notice how character optimization views Polearm Mastery as more powerful than most feats because of its additional attacks. Extra reactions are likewise unevenly more powerful, and more useful.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I added the Champion's benefits to the fighter and give a fighting style every 2 levels from 5+. Probably still underpowered for 10+ but at least you fight appreciably better than a paladin.

 

[Bill Zebub]

The concerns about reaction bloat apply to everyone, mage and warrior alike.

In 3e, the brokenness of reach prevented Large player character concepts, despite their centrality in many reallife traditions.

In 5e, there have been no complaints about reach. The main reason for the 5e balance of reach turns out to be the limit of only one reaction per turn, which thus trivializes opportunity attacks by preventing multiple simultaneous ones.

Relatedly, the limit to one reaction helps each turn within a round flow quicker to the next turn.

Again, could you describe a specific scenario that illustrates why you think two reactions would be problematic?

I can think of lots of scenarios where a character might get to make two opportunity attacks between their turns, but:
a) it would not happen every round, and probably not even every battle, and maybe not even every session
b) one extra opportunity attack, occurring occasionally, is not game-breaking
c) my proposal was that getting that extra reaction costs a feat (or ASI) so there's a pretty hefty cost to being able to do it

But maybe I'm missing something obvious.