D&D 5E My wish for saving throws

[jmucchiello]

I wish saving throws had modifiers like skills. Fireball would say make a Dexterity (dodge) saving throw. Then abilities like Evasion would say, whenever you make a Dexterity (dodge) saving throw, if you succeed you take no damage.

This would apply to other saves as well (better names can always be found later):

Strength (escape) - for grasping or holding effects (Arms of Hadar, Entangle)
Strength (power) - for pure strength effects (Gust of Wind)
Dexterity (balance) - for acts of remaining upright (Grease)
Dexterity (dodge) - for area of effect avoidance (Acid Splash)
Dexterity (escape) - yeah, it's like Strength (escape) above (Evard's Black Tentacles, Grasping Vine, Hunger of Hadar)
Constitution (concentration) - for spell casters
Constitution (environment) - for fatigue and environment effects (cone of cold)
Constitution (transformation) - petrification, polymorph, blindness, disintegrate, finger of death
Constitution (poison) - for poison and disease effects (cloudkill, contagion)
Intelligence (memory) - for mind altering effects (Feeblemind)
Intelligence (illusion) - Except there are no illusions that use Int saves. Sigh.
Wisdom (charm) - For knowing if an elf has advantage
Wisdom (compulsion)
Wisdom (fear) - all fear effects
Charisma (compulsion) - bane, banishment

Of course I realize this then follows with a re-examination of all the current spell saving throws (Why is banishment Charisma?)

Just a passing thought I thought I'd share.

 

[Asisreo]

I think banishment would be charisma(willpower) saving throw

 

[Mistwell]

I think wishing for saving throws is a perfectly fine use of the wish spell.

 

[Asisreo]

I think wishing for saving throws is a perfectly fine use of the wish spell.

Player: "I wish power word kill had a saving throw"
DM: "Granted, power word kill is a save or die spell with no hp cap. Make a DC 45 charisma saving throw"

 

[cbwjm]

I had a brief thought of doing away with saving throws and instead replacing them with skill checks. Any spell that requires dodging out of the way would become a Dexterity [acrobatics] check, resisting charm person could be a Wisdom [insight] check, knockback from an attack or spell might be a Strength [athletics] check. Although I do like this idea, I quickly abandoned it due to the number of changes I'd probably need to make.

 

[Stoutstien]

Probably easier to reintroduce the 3 save system
Fort con and wis
Will Int and cha
Reflex str and Dex

Take the average of the two to get the save modifier. Each class now only gets one ST Prof.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I had a brief thought of doing away with saving throws and instead replacing them with skill checks. Any spell that requires dodging out of the way would become a Dexterity [acrobatics] check, resisting charm person could be a Wisdom [insight] check, knockback from an attack or spell might be a Strength [athletics] check. Although I do like this idea, I quickly abandoned it due to the number of changes I'd probably need to make.

It's not just the amount of work, but also the... ambiguity (?) of it. I'm not sure that's the right word.

I mean, most of the time, players are on board whenever you ask for a saving throw. You ask for a Strength save, and the player silently agrees that it makes sense, possibly lamenting that they took this as their dump stat, and the game proceeds. But sometimes you ask for a Charisma save against Banish, and the player doesn't agree, because willpower is usually covered by Wisdom; it feels unfair, like you're going out of the way to subvert their character design choices.

That's the danger of too much granularity. You ask for a Charisma (Persuade) check, and the player really expected it to be a Charisma (Deception) check, so they feel cheated. It's also (going back to the OP), the reason why the most requested change to the saving throw system is a return to the Fort/Ref/Will of yore; there's zero ambiguity between a Ref save and a Will save.

 

[jmucchiello]

Really? I don't think people just accept it so much as they just go with the flow. The split between Wis and Cha saves is most arbitrary. Cone of cold is a Con save for half so you evade the fiery explosion of a fireball but not the sudden icy cold of a cone of cold.

And are there an Int saves? All the illusion spells use Intelligence (investigation) to see through them (those that allow seeing through).

 

[DND_Reborn]

I can certainly understand your point in the OP, but for myself I prefer the game mechanics to be as simple as possible while still modeling the results. I have made probably close to a hundred or more house-rules for 5E at one point or another, most of them make the game more realistic or logical, but ultimately many are eventually tossed aside for the sake of brevity and simplicity. I think your idea, while it certainly has merit, for myself would end up being tossed in the long run.

However, I do like @Stoutstien's idea about returning to 3 saves (even more simple than the six we have in 5E) but would do it a bit differently.

 

[Stoutstien]

I can certainly understand your point in the OP, but for myself I prefer the game mechanics to be as simple as possible while still modeling the results. I have made probably close to a hundred or more house-rules for 5E at one point or another, most of them make the game more realistic or logical, but ultimately many are eventually tossed aside for the sake of brevity and simplicity. I think your idea, while it certainly has merit, for myself would end up being tossed in the long run.

However, I do like @Stoutstien's idea about returning to 3 saves (even more simple than the six we have in 5E) but would do it a bit differently.

Mostly a spitball idea that been floating around one of my groups. When we start up a new campaign I want to really hammer out a 3 save option for 5e.
What thoughts do you have?