D&D 5E Mythological Figures: Achilles (5E)

Drizzt

 

[Coroc]

[MENTION=23484]Kobold Stew[/MENTION] #40

You are right about this. I probably intermix my first Impression which mainly is from a youth book, although one written very close to the actual saga, with the real original.

The impulsive stuff i recall come from his behaviour grieving about Patroklos and Briseis, and him dragging Hectors corpse behind his chariot

There is one more fact i seem to remember: Although mortal isn't it he was some Kind of demigod? Son of some lesser goddess of the seas?

 

[Kobold Stew]

[MENTION=23484]
The impulsive stuff i recall come from his behaviour grieving about Patroklos and Briseis, and him dragging Hectors corpse behind his chariot

I suspect that this is meant as a deliberate insult to the corpse in order to cause pain and fear to the Trojans watching, but that may not be explicit. .

There is one more fact i seem to remember: Although mortal isn't it he was some Kind of demigod? Son of some lesser goddess of the seas?

Every named hero (except Thersites in book 2) has a divine ancestor. Some have Olympian parents (e.g. Aeneas), some minor deities (Achilles), and some it goes back a few generations (Diomedes, Odysseus). But there's always a god somewhere.

The word demigod (hemitheos) is used in Hesiod (and possibly once in Homer, though some thing the line is posthomeric), but in Homer having a divine ancestor does not give you powers or abilities. The child of a god and a mortal is a mortal (exceptions include Dionysus who is sewn into Zeus' thigh and Heracles who achieves immortality through his heroic efforts).

Achilles' mom Thetis is a sea goddess (daughter of Nereus) and comes when he calls (books 1, 18). She can pull strings among the gods on Olympus (since she once put down an insurrection against Zeus (book 1). But Achilles is still (in Homer) able to be wounded and die. In fact, he knows he is fated to die at Troy if he fights for glory (book 9, where he says he had a choice).

 

[Jay Verkuilen]

Titania, Tomoe Gozen, Lúthien, Khutulun, Brunhilde, Atalanta, Penthesilea, Circe...

What I'd love to see in this column is both a mix of really well-known mythological figures and those who are more side-lined or not usually known in mainstream culture (but nevertheless are a big deal in their respective context). Otherwise you'd risk adding to the already strong echo-chamber effect we have in the combined contexts of pop-culture fantasy and mythology.

I'd suspect Titania, Circe, and Brunhild are more "powers" than someone built from character stats, and don't really feel to me like adventurers but Tomoe Gozen, Lúthien, Khutulun, and Atalanta are all good ones.

Jessica Amanda Salmonson wrote a trilogy of books with Tomoe Gozen as the protagonist in a "legendary" Japan. She'd be a good build using the samurai archetype from Xanthar's.

Khutulun, the Mongol princess and general, was legendary for her fighting prowess and is portrayed as being a skilled wrestler. Again, a fighter. Maybe battlemaster, possibly multiclassed with barbarian

Lúthien is a fantastic example of a lore bard. Her ability comes from her song and force of personality.

Atalanta seems a pretty good example of Bear Totem barbarian, although as someone else on this thread mentioned, one trouble with figures of mythology is that there are many different sources. She's sometimes portrayed as an archer but she has a connection to bears, too, so I dunno. I'd say there are enough lady archers, make her a Bear Totem Barbarian!

 

[epithet]

The thing about Achilleus and his invulnerability is that it wasn't a matter of making his skin resistant to damage, it was about fate and mortality. Nothing could kill him while he was protected by fate, but when his heel was struck he succumbed to mortality. People tend to think of him as being like Luke Cage, with unbreakable skin everywhere but the heel, but I don't think that's what Homer meant. Achilleus was simply not mortal until and unless his point of vulnerability was struck, at which point his fate was sealed.

 

[jasper]

Bluebeard, Joan of Arc,

 

[Tony Vargas]

Great idea, but....the ability scores are waaaay too low, especially the physical ones and CHA. I think you could make an argument that INT should be 10 at best. But remember that Achilles was essentially the perfect physical specimen. I think you start him maxed out in STR, CON, and maybe DEX at 1st level, then extrapolate from there. We're not talking PCs here, but mythic archetypes.

Also, why not 20th level? He was the greatest warrior in the world. In fact, I think you'd probably have to max out levels for all the archetypal mythic heroes.

There's always been a very real temptation to go to the wall like that. Merlin has to be a 19 INT archmage, so does Gandalf, etc...

...I liked the old "Gandalf was a 5th level Magic-User" article not just because it pointed up how D&D departed from it's source material, but because it /didn't/ go there, while Giants of the Earth pretty consistently did. Every character that appeared there would be very high level, have improbable to illegal stats, combine classes that didn't go together, and have arbitrary special abilities.

D&D /should/ be able to emulate mythic archetypes. The demi-god. The fated King who is one with the land. The trickster.

 

[Morrus]

There’s an approach that legendary figures should be better than PCs. My preferred approach is that PCs *are* the legendary figures of their world. Your characters are your World’s versions of Achilles and Lancelot and Robin Hood. PCs are the best in the world, and our own myths and legends should be about on the same level.

 

[Mercurius]

There's always been a very real temptation to go to the wall like that. Merlin has to be a 19 INT archmage, so does Gandalf, etc...

...I liked the old "Gandalf was a 5th level Magic-User" article not just because it pointed up how D&D departed from it's source material, but because it /didn't/ go there, while Giants of the Earth pretty consistently did. Every character that appeared there would be very high level, have improbable to illegal stats, combine classes that didn't go together, and have arbitrary special abilities.

D&D /should/ be able to emulate mythic archetypes. The demi-god. The fated King who is one with the land. The trickster.

Perhaps the key is how closely we want to simulate the literature from which these heroes are from. If we really want to simulate Achilles, then some kind of "legendary" cap-system would be required to facilitate truly epic heroes and/or demi-gods: starting with higher ability scores, receiving divine boons, etc. For instance, Achilles would only be hittable on a crit...which would be ridiculously powerful, but true to the literature.

So the question, again, is: do we want to be realistic to the literature, or do we want the D&D version? And if we want the D&D version, do we want to imagine those characters as PCs or as legendary NPCs?

I personally prefer trying to emulate the literature...otherwise we're moving further and further away from "Achilles" and "Gandalf" and just making high level D&D characters with the same name and similar powers.

 

[Quartz]

Longsword. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 9 (1d8+5) slashing damage.

Spear. Melee or Ranged Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 5 ft. or range 20/60 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d6+5) piercing damage, or 7 (1d8+3) piercing damage when thrown.

Longbow. Ranged Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, range 150/600 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8+2) piercing damage.

One of the things that the film Troy got right is that they fought with shield and spear. And the sword would have been a shortsword, not a longsword. He should probably have the Shield Master feat.

Have you given him the Duellist and Defence Fighting Styles?

You might want to reduce his AC to represent his armour being made from bronze.

 

[pemerton]

As far as Achiulles' invulnerability is concerned, isn't that what hit points are for? We know he's been struck in the heel, because his hp are at, or a close to, zero.