Natural weapons in a grapple?

[Terraism]

Hey, folks.

I've never been *terribly* clear on the grapple rules - despite multiple readings, they've never made loads of sense to me. Not been a huge issue in the past, though. Now, however, I'm playing a dwarvern werebear in a high-level game, and found out - via accident, the other day - that grappling things to death is absolutely *brutal.* My question, though, is on dealing damage during a grapple. It was my understanding that you may use natural attacks in a grapple; can you use just one, as per damaging an opponent with an unarmed strike, or all of them? For that matter, can someone attacking with an unarmed strike gain anything from iterative attacks?

 

[Thanee]

When you are in a grapple, you can only use a single natural weapon to attack (with -4 penalty) plus any Rake attacks (if any, bears don't have those normally).

You can also opt to damage your opponent. You don't make an attack roll then, but rather a grapple check, and you have as many attacks as your BAB allows (i.e. two if BAB is +8).

And yes, grappling is brutal if your opponents are smaller/weaker and have no means to escape.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Camarath]

Using Unarmed Strikes does allow a character iterative attacks. But you can not use Natural Weapons to make Unarmed Strikes.

 

[LostSoul]

It was my understanding that you may use natural attacks in a grapple; can you use just one, as per damaging an opponent with an unarmed strike, or all of them? For that matter, can someone attacking with an unarmed strike gain anything from iterative attacks?

This is my understanding (I've never been too clear, either): You may make extra attacks (if you have them) when you're grappling. You make these attacks as opposed grapple checks. You can make these attacks on the round in which you begin the grapple, or on following rounds in which you are grappling (eg. your BAB is +11, and you succeeded on the grapple with your first attack).

Damage Your Opponent: While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a –4 penalty on your grapple check.

 

[Camarath]

If you do not have Improved Grab you can not use a grapple check to damage your opponent with a Natural Weapon and only the weapon used to established the hold can be with Improved Grab. As a Werebear you should have Improved Grab with Claw attack when in Bear form.

 

[LostSoul]

Seriously? That's very counter-intuitive. So a wolf can't bite a human he's in a grapple with?

 

[Camarath]

Seriously? That's very counter-intuitive. So a wolf can't bite a human he's in a grapple with?

He can but he has to use the Attack Your Opponent grapple action which uses an attack roll rather than a grapple check as would be the case with the Damage Your Opponent action or with a creature with Improved Grapple.

From SRD

Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a -4 penalty on such attacks.

Damage Your Opponent: While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a -4 penalty on your grapple check.

 

[LostSoul]

Ah, cool, thanks for pointing that out. That makes more sense to me.