Necromancers...Who else wants them?

[Mithreinmaethor]

I dont think that a Necromancer will be as cool as some people are thinking.

It would likely be a Shadow Controller that has summoning powers like a Wizard does except it would summon undead.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

For that matter I'm not really all that convinced that there is a real strong tradition of necromancers in D&D. No such class existed pre-3.x for sure. 2e added in a bunch of options in its later days but I don't recall a class that was focused on necromancy. At best it was a kit or some options and honestly I don't recall anyone in any group I ever played in or ran that ever made one. The concept was not unknown, but its never been a really significant element of the game as a PC option.

In any case there were plenty of 'dark' characters back in the old days, and nothing stops you from making dark characters in 4e. Just as in the old days they had the same powers and class features as any other PC, they just may have had a bit different fluff and picked different spells and equipment when it was available. You can do the same in 4e. Beyond that the rules DO talk about changing damage types and keywords for thematic reasons. If a player wanted to have a dark invoker they could just use necrotic variations of existing powers. The DM is going to have a say on doing that, but its not a big deal.

I figure we probably WILL get a necromancer at some point, but I think its a low priority over at WotC.

 

[mneme]

Since they're pretty much down to elemental and shadow for new power sources, it's likely to be sooner (2011) rather than later (> 2011).

Re felon: Having thought about it, a necromancer, as a pet class, should probably have an always-present pet as the shaman has. After all, what's the point of an undead-aspected mage who often doesn't have undead? So you'd have a shadow, necrotic-aspected controller who typically operated via a pet -- with ranged spells typically originating from the necromancer, but area spells typically orignating from the pet. (and, of course, dailies that summoned up pets, probably with the quasi-controllable "instinctive action" we've seen from more recent summons).

No, I don't think we have one of those right now.

 

[bagger245]

Well from what I see of WOTC's forums regarding the PHB3 classes, the new shadow classes ought to step up and be really interesting. A refluffed wizard with undead theme and called a necromancer wouldn't be enough to satisfy and pose as a new class. Also it has to support a variety of builds.

 

[circadianwolf]

Indeed. In any case, a Necromancer is pretty clearly a Shadow controller (or maybe shadow leader).

I myself prefer a Necromancer defender. With a permanent pet doing the defending, similar to beast mastery.

 

[Klaus]

As far as 4e goes, there are few options for "dark" heroes other then the striker roll. While a warlock or assassin can make a fine "dark" hero, other rolls like the controller, leader ect... lack a truly "dark" class, and as somebody who likes those rolls and prefers the dark side to the light one, I have been looking for a truly "dark" class for 4E which is not a striker, for a change.

The class in question? The Necromancer. Necromancers have always been an iconic part of D&D really since 2e. The image of a dark mage commanding undead minions and draining enemies of their power with dark energy has been one which has been ingrained in the heads of some players, some who would like to see such a class in 4e.

Now, I know 4e really dose not want you to be evil, hence why a Necromancer class has yet to be made, but 4e also seams fine with allowing evil characters to run around scoring enemies with light based powers.(Paladins can be evil now...after all.) So if in 4e powers themselves are not inherently good or evil(If they where, evil paladins would be a separate class using necrotic instead of radiant attacks, same with evil clerics.) but rather the person using them makes them good or evil, then I don't see why there could not be a hero who uses necromancy perhaps because they have a morbid fascination with the undead or otherwise feel a connection to them. I mean, I don't see how animating corpses and draining people's life force is any more evil then selling your soul to demons or other nasties for power and wizards seems fine with heroic Warlocks. So, I really think a necromancer class would work in 4e, and is needed, so people who like darker/more sinister powers but want to play a non-striker have an option on hand.

So, do any of you here share my sentiments? Is a necromancer needed in 4e? If not, to you agree there should be some non-striker classes with a "darker" flavor? If not the necromancer, what classes should those be?

Also, on another note, for those who want a necromancer class for their 4e games, check out the "Dread Necromancer" by ThePlanesWalker of Wizards forums. It's what I use as a temp right now until wizards makes a real necromancer class and it works wonderful. It is also fully completed with paragon paths, special feats, epic destinies and high level abilities...and it all comes in a rather well made pdf. I highly suggest that necromancer fans or people who want a darker controller or leader(Since it can do either reasonably well, leaning slightly to the controller side.) check it out.

Controller:
- take a summoning wizard and describe all of his minions as zombies/skeletons/wraiths;
- use a malediction invoker;

Leader:
- Cleric with death-related feats/domains

Defender:
- Paladin of the Raven Queen

Lots of dark stuff available!

 

[Camelot]

I think a shadow leader who treats their allies as undead would be cool. Then their healing power would only work on undead...which counts their allies. Weird.

I agree that I want to see some dark themed classes along with the traditionally evil races. The beach mages have no reason not to eventually, especially because everyone wants one. It has to happen, we might just have to wait; it's possible elemental may come first, which I wouldn't mind either.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Necromancers should exist in 4Ed. End of story.

 

[jester_gl]

A shaman don't even need to be refflufed to work as a Necromancer. He speak with dead souls that linger around, he's always followed by a ghostly companion (his twin brother who died at birth just as described in Primal Power for exemple) and he's often disconnected from the living world, being more interested in all those spirits around him.

A necromancer as a defender remind me of DAOC (MMORPG) for some reason, where the necromancer became untargetable as long as the summoned spirit was present. The pet did some basic melee combat and the necro just stood behind and casted some spell via the pet or buffed the pet for better melee combat.

I would still be interested in seeing what Wotc would present as a necromancer class, or for any number of cool shadow power class.

 

[Kinneus]

Yeah, I've always wanted a necromancer class, too. I always enjoyed necromancers, and the struggle or challenge of playing a Lawful Good necromancer always appealed to me.

I think basing it off the Shaman, but leaning more toward the Controller role, could be interesting. As for what the necromancer's 'pet' could be, I had an interesting idea that would mesh well with idea of a good or lawful good necromancer.

The necromancer's 'pet' could be a particular soul that the necromancer linked himself to. Now, for evil necromancers, this would likely be a rival wizard he slew, or some innocent villager he tortured into being an undead monstrosity. But for a Good or Lawful Good necromancer, it could be an evil being that he has enslaved. They might be trying to redeem the evil being, or it might have been placed in the character's care by a powerful entity like the Raven Queen, or they might see themselves as a spirtual jailer who job it is to either punish the 'pet' or to keep it safe from the world.

So, for an example background... Bill the Necromancer was studying to be a wizard when he was one day contacted by the Raven Queen. The Raven Queen placed the soul of an ancient lich under Bill's command. This was the lich's punishment for trying to escape death, an eternity of enslavement to a novice wizard. Overtime, the lich's power will trickle into Bill, making him more and more powerful while the lich wanes helplessly. At level 30, Bill might completely extinguish the lich. In order to prevent this, the lich is always trying to get Bill to commit evil acts, hoping that by tempting Bill into evil, he can take over Bill's body, instead of Bill taking over his soul.

I think it's cool fluff, and makes use of current mechanics while at the same time stretching them, pushing their boundaries.

In the mean time, though... guess I'll just have to make due with a Shaman or a summoning wizard with refluffed powers.