Need clarification on charge ending turn

[Mengu]

6. Can a Rageblood Vigor Barbarian use his Swift Charge power after a charge attack?

Yes you can, Swift Charge is a free action so it can be done even if a charge attack has ended your turn.

Rageblood Barbarian begins his turn slowed (save ends), charges an enemy, attacks, kills him. His turn ends. He makes saving throw. Succeeds. Now he can use swift charge with his regular speed, correct?

 

[Mort_Q]

Seems to be correct, as long as the DM doesn't use their veto on "free actions."

 

[Camelot]

No. Please turn to page 269 of the Player's Handbook. Here you will find the rules of the three stages of your turn.

During the actions stage, you can take as many free actions as you like. However, you cannot make a saving throw until the end of your turn, a seperate stage of your turn. At the end of your turn, you cannot take any actions.

So, if you've made the saving throw, you cannot use swift charge. If you want to use swift charge in that scenario, you must do it while still slowed, so your target has to be within 3 squares of you.

 

[ValhallaGH]

During the actions stage, you can take as many free actions as you like. However, you cannot make a saving throw until the end of your turn, a seperate stage of your turn. At the end of your turn, you cannot take any actions.

Partially accurate.

Saving Throws occur at the end of your turn, after you've ended your turn. Free actions occur whenever.

It's not the action that stops your Swift Charge. It's the Trigger.

Swift charge is triggered by an attack of yours dropping an enemy to 0 (or fewer) hp. So, you can't use it unless the trigger activates, and you either use it immediately or wait for the trigger to happen again.
If you charge while slowed, kill a foe, and then make a Save, you've let the trigger pass by and can't Swift Charge. Unless your DM rules otherwise (DM's always trump the rules; always).
If your Warlord gives you a basic melee and you kill the foe, then you can Swift Charge. Free actions can be taken on anyone's turn, and Swift Charge requires you to make an attack that drops a foe to 0 hp.


Would it be broken to allow the Swift Charge? Probably not.
Would it be cool to allow it? Yes.


Good luck.

 

[Mengu]

I'm sorry, it's the FAQ answer that was confusing me, mainly:

"Yes you can, Swift Charge is a free action so it can be done even if a charge attack has ended your turn."

If my turn has ended, that means I have made my saving throws. If it said:

"Yes you can, Swift Charge is a free action so it can be done even if a charge attack will end your turn."

then I would not be confused.

We've been playing it as the swift charge comes between reducing enemy to 0 hit points, and end of your turn. The FAQ entry seemed to imply the swift charge happens after the end of your turn (which can lead to some different out of turn dynamics). Maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

 

[Camelot]

@Mengu: Their wording choice is rather poor, but think of it as meaning "has ended the action phase of your turn." Charging doesn't skip the end turn phase; it disallows any more actions on your turn (except for free actions).

@Valhalla: We are both right. Executing a triggered action requires that nothing else has been done since the trigger occured, which you understand. However, your saving throws take place in a completely different phase of your turn (the end of your turn phase) than your actions, a phase during which the Player's Handbook (page 269) clearly states that you can take no actions, which includes free actions. Therefore, by making a saving throw, even disregarding the trigger, you are not allowed RAW to take that free action.

However, you are absolutely right that it's the DM's choice. If it makes the game more fun, go for it. If you really want to play by RAW, you cannot take a free action after you've made any saving throws on your turn.

 

[DracoSuave]

@Mengu: Their wording choice is rather poor, but think of it as meaning "has ended the action phase of your turn." Charging doesn't skip the end turn phase; it disallows any more actions on your turn (except for free actions).

Charges actually deny all actions until the end of your turn. Free actions are included in that.

What the FAQ is saying, however, is you can take the triggered free action at the next opportunity you have to take free actions, that being, the beginning of whoever's turn is next.

Of course, that charge then says you can't take actions during -that- turn...

 

[N0Man]

I'm sorry, it's the FAQ answer that was confusing me, mainly:

"Yes you can, Swift Charge is a free action so it can be done even if a charge attack has ended your turn."

If my turn has ended, that means I have made my saving throws...

You're turning the phrase "has ended your turn" to mean "after your turn is ended", which are subtly different.

By your interpretation and logic, why not wait until the next player begins his turn and evaluates his continuing damage, and then do your free action?

ValhallaGH nailed it when he stated that the action is based on a trigger and that it must be the thing performed immediately after that trigger.

 

[keterys]

Free actions can happen in the middle of things. So, much like how a warden can mark people he moves past or ends up next to with a free action while in the middle of his charge action, a barbarian might finish everything about his charge action except the 'and I'm done this charge so can do no further actions' to take a free action to swift charge. Or to rampage. Or both.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Charges actually deny all actions until the end of your turn. Free actions are included in that.

What the FAQ is saying, however, is you can take the triggered free action at the next opportunity you have to take free actions, that being, the beginning of whoever's turn is next.

Of course, that charge then says you can't take actions during -that- turn...

No, the answer R&D gave in the original thread that caused that FAQ entry said that the reason you were allowed to take the free action is because the specific overrides the general.

The general rule is "You can't take anymore actions after you've charged". Swift charge says "You get to charge as a free action when these circumstances are met". If the circumstances are met after you charge, you get to take the swift charge because it overrides the general rule at that time.

It is still during your main phase of your turn, you have not reached the end turn phase and therefore are still slowed. Also, even after you Swift Charge you can spend an action point after the Swift Charge and attack again.