Need more military help

[garrowolf]

Alright I am continuing work on military characters for my Nexus game. Now I am going to cover special forces groups. I am basing some of this on D20 Modern Blood and Gut but I need some help.

First off I have my game set to that a soldier that has finished basic and specialty training would be a 5th level character. I am starting on the assumption that a character would need to get to 10th level before they could take Special Forces training. Does that sound about right? What kind of requirements should I include in order to go into a Special Forces group?

 

[S'mon]

For me your level numbers are vastly excessive, especially in a game where the greatest legendary heroes are 20th level.

In traditional D&D Basic Training would IMO at most make you a 1st level Fighter, and I don't think it's a good idea to have Advanced Class - Soldier in d20 modern be simply the result of basic training; I'd use it for a military combat veteran. I use the following for non-heroic NPCs:

Level
1 - Novice, eg fresh out of Basic, at least 2 months
2 - Trained, either some experience or extended Basic training, at least 6 months
3 - Experienced, typically with combat experience, for US that'd be semi-elite combat units
4 - Veteran, definitely combat experience, 'lesser' elite units
5 - Elite - eg special forces, for US that'd be Spec Ops fresh graduate

YMMV, but I don't see any game advantage in making every Spec Ops soldier 10th level. 10th would be for guys with many years of Spec Ops service; some senior NCOs and COs, guys who can get hired by megacorporations and third world countries to head their security, guys who are semi-legendary within the profession.

 

[Bedrockgames]

You could consider attribute checks to see if the person can get through the special forces training (depending on how involved you want the process to be). I would also consider how different things like this would be in a fantasy world with magic and uber warriors. There really isn't a real world equivalent to a 20th level fighter. So the standards might be higher.

Also I would expect that the fantasy world equivalent of Seal Team 6 or the Army Rangers or Delta Force would require a mix of wizard, fighter and rogue levels (if you are doing d20).

 

[El Mahdi]

The problem with making them a high level character is due to the inherent shortfalls that an experience based level/class system has - that what you know (skills, proficiency) is linked to Experience. In the real world that couldn't be further from the truth. But it is a game, and the experience class/level mechanic is a good one for presenting advancement in a game, so there you have it. I don't know of any better models, but that's just my own ignorance and not a comment on whether they exist or not. But in any system meant to played as a game, learning new things (gaining more skill/power/etc.) is almost always a player reward for adventuring.

In the real world, special ops guys aren't more proficient or deadly because of their combat experience - it's because they train, train, and train even more.

Seal Team 6 wasn't so effective in their recent accomplishment in Pakistan because of their experience (at least not entirely, experience can never be ignored...). They were so lethal because of all the training they've had. from BUDS on up. That's one key of military life - training never stops. If anything, training actually increases when you reach the lofty heights of special ops (lofty heights is just a joke - special ops spends more time in the dirt than anybody else). Those guys were able to assault that complex so efficiently, because they spent months practicing it on a mock-up - with as many different possible variables as they could think of, and I'm sure with as many runs as possible including live fire. They probably spent the 6 months before that assault planning and practicing just that one mission, 12 or more hours a day, 7 days a week. These guys can pull off seeming miraculous shooting all due to the constant practice. For them it's nothing special, just muscle memory and familiarity, but all due to training/practice. That's the real difference between them and regular soldiers. Sure, there's a real physical difference to start with (that's not necessarily strength or constitution) - they can endure hardship and recover from said hardship better and quicker than a regular soldier. But THE difference is the time and money (budget) they can spend on training. It's also the difference between these forces and other countries forces that don't have this time and money, let alone the requisite knowledge base, to train such forces to such a level.

So for me, what's realistic isn't the level of the character, it's the skills they know and the proficiency they have with them that models a special ops soldier. But, since it's a game based on advancement through experience, I'd recommend first determining/deciding what a special ops guy knows (skills) and the level of proficiency they would need to have with those skills - then determine what level that would equate to. Alternatively, still start with determining their skills and proficiency, but then determine a level adjustment for play as a 3rd to 5th level character.

I agree that 10th level is definitely too high. Due to the link to experience, that would mean a character would need to have years of actual combat experience before ever even being considered for special ops. That seems both unrealistic and impractical to me.

Something else that might help model the extreme skill of special ops over regular soldiers, is provide them a situational bonus/modifier to their skills and attack/damage/defense scores due to the training/practice done prior to a mission. Then, even at a similiar experience level of a regular soldier, they have a definite advantage due to their training and practice. (But that would be a GM thing, and not a player thing...)

 

[garrowolf]

Well I understand what you mean. My Nexus skill system is there in order to deal with that sort of thing. Skills have ranks that reflect something in the real world beyond just a number. Your skill ranks are basic - a few hours of training, trained - organized training, focused - lots of specialized training and one of the focuses of your character, expert - you are an expert in this field, and mastery - you are a world class master. People who have their specialization training would be trained. I was thinking that someone might need focused in certain skills to be allowed into spec ops training but I don't know how the qualifications work for it.

Basically one of the things that I am trying to figure out is how long would a person go between their MOS training and go into special forces training. Can you go immediately after that if you do well in training? Do you need to prove yourself in combat first? Do you have to have a certain rank? How does it work?

 

[El Mahdi]

I was thinking that someone might need focused in certain skills to be allowed into spec ops training but I don't know how the qualifications work for it.

Basically one of the things that I am trying to figure out is how long would a person go between their MOS training and go into special forces training. Can you go immediately after that if you do well in training? Do you need to prove yourself in combat first? Do you have to have a certain rank? How does it work?

Well, the short answer is: it depends.

I know that doesn't help much though.

Each special operations unit has their own requirements, with the one major common element as some type of screening. There may or may not be MOS/Specialty requirements and qualification requirements, but they will all have physical and mental screening requirements.

In general, a special ops member will have a mental disposition of intense loyalty and sense of duty, yet able to be an imaginative/creative thinker (not a robot) - they also have high initiative and strong mental fortitude. Scientific studies have also shown that special operations soldiers, either due to the type of training they endure or because of innate genetic qualities they possess in the first place, respond differently as far as adrenaline response. A regular soldier (and like the majority of regular people also), after a very stressful situation or experience that causes high adrenaline levels, can take days for their adrenaline levels to return to normal and for their bodies to recover back to a pre-situation state. Special ops soldiers can return to normal withing a day, sometimes even within hours. They recover from fatigue and the effects of injury faster also. The downside, an increased risk of heart attack/stroke in middle age and shorter overall life expectancies - statistically anyways.

That's the common stuff.

Some specific requirements of different Special Forces:

Army Rangers: One can enter the Army on a Ranger Contract, in other words, you are moving straight to the Rangers after accomplishment of required training (I believe Pat Tilman and his brother did this). Also, anyone can apply for Ranger training later if requirements are met. (Unfortunately, women are still excluded.)

Contract - Basic Training, followed by AIT (Advanced Individual Training) or OSUT (One Station Unit Training) - which I presume is Infantry training - then on to Airbone Training. After that, if they have qualified, they move on to Ranger School.

Non-contract - Qualified in your MOS (any MOS, but obviously some will carry more weight than others), and Airborne qualified (graduated Airborne training).

Selection isn't guaranteed. Personal records (NCO Evaluation Reports, etc.) are evaluated. If everything is good, you might be selected to attend Ranger training. If you're below E-6 (Staff Segeant) you go to RASP1, all others (NCO's of Staff Sergeant and higher, and all Officers) go to RASP2. If successfully completed, you are then assigned to one of the Ranger Units.

Rank wise, a Ranger can be anything from Private First Class (PFC) and up.


Navy SEAL's: One can enlist in the Navy with the express purpose of endeavoring to become a SEAL. I don't know if there's a "Contract" path like for Rangers. According to Wikipedia, the requirements are as follow:

Screening

Entering training to become a Navy SEAL is voluntary, and officers and enlisted men train side-by-side. To volunteer, SEAL candidates must be male, US citizens in the U.S. Navy or Coast Guard between 18 and 28 years old. Waivers are available for 17 year olds with parental permission and on a case by case basis for 29 and 30 year olds.[3] Academically, all applicants must have the equivalent of a high school education, score a minimum of 220 on the ASVAB and be proficient in all aspects of the English language. Medically, all potential applicants must have at least 20/75 vision, correctable to 20/20, be able to pass the SEAL Physical Screening Test and have no recent history of drug abuse. Lastly applicants must have "good moral character" as determined by his history of criminal convictions and civil citations.[4][5]
Assessment

Assignment to BUD/S is conditional on passing the Diver/SEAL Physical Screening Test (PST). Prospective trainees are expected to exceed the minimums. The minimum requirements are 500 yd (460 m) swim using breast or Combat sidestroke in under 12:30 with a competitive time of 10:00 or less, at least 42 push-ups in 2 minutes with a competitive count of 79 or more, at least 50 sit-ups in 2 minutes with a competitive count of 79 or more, at least 6 pull-ups from a dead hang (no time limit) with a competitive count of 11 or more, run 1.5 mi (2.4 km) in boots and trousers in under 11:30 with a competitive time of 10:20 or less.[6][7]

So, it sounds to me that just like the Rangers, it is possible for relatively low ranking enlisted members to be part of SEAL teams - though they would likely be extraordinary individuals.


But also remember, there are Special Ops, and then there are SPECIAL OPS (know as Tier One special operations). Tier One units would be Delta and SEAL Team 6. They may advertise for recruits to a certain extent, while not specifically stating exactly who they are, but it's likely to be as much an invitation only thing. They don't seem to publicize their requirements.

 

[El Mahdi]

Also what might help is a quick summoning spell: [MENTION=34175]Thunderfoot[/MENTION]

He's really the guy for this.

 

[garrowolf]

Also what might help is a quick summoning spell: [MENTION=34175]Thunderfoot[/MENTION]

He's really the guy for this.

HAHA

Okay so I think the way to do this in Nexus is to require in general that characters are focused in Athletics, Resistance, and Resolve before they enter a Spec Ops program. Then have more specific requirements for certain spec ops groups such as the paratrooper training for Rangers. How does that sound?

 

[El Mahdi]

Could work. Sounds good to me. Let's see what some others think (and especially Thunderfoot...but he seems to be busy today).

 

[Thunderfoot]

Sri, my daughter is graduating HS today, so I've been a little busy...

[MENTION=59506]El Mahdi[/MENTION] - you have the right of it about Spec Ops, anyone can "contract" for any Spec Ops training, however, that doesn't mean you are guaranteed to get in, just that you get all the requisite training required to get to the qualification course, and of course you can pass and still be a non-select, which means that the service can then put you where they want you. Since most Spec Ops is combat oriented that means you will be some sort of combat arms.

For prior service (ie everyone else) any MOS can enter a Q course but thereafter will have to change their classification to the special ops combat arms designator of their specific branch 18 series for Green beans, 11 series for Rangers, BUD/SEAL for Navy, etc...

Time in service holds very little weight with most Spec Ops as far as who knows what. They will train you with what they want you to know and would prefer if you forgot everything that came before.

I have to go at the moment, but I'll go into more detail when I get back from the ceremony. I'll also talk a bit about Delta Force, they are a completely different animal.