Need opinions on a Fighter level 2 Utility...

[Hejdun]

Shielded Sides is +2 to AC and Reflex Defense when wielding a shield, right? I personally like that one.
"Come and Get it" -> Action Point -> *insert other close burst power which name I forgot" -> Oops, now I am surrounded by several foes that are pretty annoyed about what I just did to them -> Shielded Sides.

That's exactly what my fighter is planning on doing, with the added bonus that he's a human with Action Surge going for Swordmaster (so an additional +3 to hit and +4 AC/Reflex when he whips out the action point). If you try, you can get quite a few Close Burst powers as a fighter that you can last a few rounds in the swarm if need be.

But unless this is your playbook, Shielded Sides probably isn't for you.

 

[Goumindong]

Shielded Sides is +2 to AC and Reflex Defense when wielding a shield, right?

It also cancels Combat advantage, so its effectively a +4

 

[Snotboy]

That being said it does have some interesting applications.

Suppose that you wanted to avoid a charge from an enemy and then surround him.

Well, ready a pass forward for when the enemy enters a square adjacent to you. The charge triggers it (but before he attacks), you then move around him and suddenly he is no longer in the "closest square to you from the origin of the charge" and probably cannot make it there without provoking and having his movement stopped.

You've avoided the charge attack and move yourself in front of him allowing your friends to move in behind and flank while you run interference for the rest of the party. Is readying an attack action better? Might be. Might not be.

I don't think that would work, by the way. Under 'Ready an Action' PHB 291, it says you 'Choose an action that will trigger your readied action', and 'A readied action is an Immediate Reaction. It takes place after your enemy completes the action that triggers it.'

A Charge isn't a move and an attack, it is both those components blended into a single action. If you ready an action to react to an enemy charging you, you wouldn't act until your opponent's action, both the move an attack portions of the Charge, are complete. You can't even say that reaching the square adjacent to you is enough. Reaching the square is only part of the action, and it isn't complete until he makes his attack. Only then can you execute an action you Readied for a Charge.

If you had something that was an Interrupt, however, like an Opportunity Attack granted by an effect such as Polearm Gamble, you would have better luck.

 

[Goumindong]

You ready the action for when a charging enemy enters your square not for when the charge completes. The game even makes specific mention of how readied actions interrupt this type of movement even though they are reactions.

In short, you can react to a move without waiting for the entire move to go off. The action that triggers the readied action is the move and not the attack.

 

[Grabuto138]

It depends on how much the DM uses terrain and monster roles and how he or she uses them. We are often in situtations where my Warlond and the fighter are trying to use tactical movement to get around the soldier-types to put heat on the leader/controller/boss early. Pass Forward, Opening Shove and Wolfpack Tactics can allow for a lot of forward movement through enemy lines.

Full disclosure: We have an Eladrin fighter and Dragonborn Paladin so the two defenders allow for more aggressive movement. In a single defender party the fighter is more likely to be reactive.

 

[UltimaGabe]

As of right now (since the game is tomorrow), I'm going to take Create Opening, since that seems to fit my play style a little better. If I end up not liking it, I'm sure the DM won't mind me switching it out for something else.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Personally, I'm a big Shielded Sides fan. It's great for use with burst powers because you're now surrounded by a bunch of pissed off, marked enemies that are effectively at a -2 to hit you and can't get CA from flanking. Awesome.

Pass Forward is okay, but it seems to get most of it's utility when dealing with Large or larger creatures. Usually, you don't need to shift more than one square when dealing with a Medium sized enemy.

 

[Snotboy]

You ready the action for when a charging enemy enters your square not for when the charge completes. The game even makes specific mention of how readied actions interrupt this type of movement even though they are reactions.

In short, you can react to a move without waiting for the entire move to go off. The action that triggers the readied action is the move and not the attack.

I see, it does say, "Note that an enemy might use a power that lets it move and then attack. If you readied an action to attack in response to that enemy’s movement, your readied action interrupts the movement, and you can attack before the enemy does."

If what you say is true then, you really don't need Pass Forward to pull that off--any move action would do it. Ready an ordinary move in the manner you described, and simply move around the charging enemy the same way. He can't make an AO on you anyway, since it is his own turn (PHB268). Heck, anyone can do this, not just fighters.

As such, it doesn't quite smell right to me. A big slow ogre can dance around even the most agile elf this way, with the rules as written.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

I see, it does say, "Note that an enemy might use a power that lets it move and then attack. If you readied an action to attack in response to that enemy’s movement, your readied action interrupts the movement, and you can attack before the enemy does."

When I see "power that lets it move and then attack", I think more of something like Nimble Strike, that has a clear move component and then an attack component. Charging is combining a move and attack into a single action, I don't think that they can be separated that way.

 

[Goumindong]

As such, it doesn't quite smell right to me

Maybe. But that is the way we're running it. Though you are right that you could use a regular old move, making my argument moot(can't make OA on your own turn)

When I see "power that lets it move and then attack", I think more of something like Nimble Strike, that has a clear move component and then an attack component. Charging is combining a move and attack into a single action, I don't think that they can be separated that way.

Nimble strike and charge are mechanically equivalent in this instance. If you nimble strike from behind cover and are hidden even if you nimble out into the open you get CA. The reason why this works for CA from stealth and it doesn't work for other readied actions is, at least as i see it, that you can't ready an action against someone you don't know is there.(i also think there are special rules regarding being hidden and finishing actions)