Negative Damage

[honeybunch]

With a power like Iron to Glass, where the enemy can get up to -10 penalty to damage roles, what happens when the penalty exceeds the amount of damage done?

Does the attack instead heal the target? That would be extremely goofy. Does it just do zero damage?

If there is an answer to this question in the PHB, I was not able to find it.

 

[talarei07]

minimum damage is 0. so if you roll 5 damage and suffer -10 to damage you deal 0 not -5

 

[Saagael]

I'm fairly certain that all attacks do a minimum of 1 damage. I can't say this is RAW, but it makes sense that attacks always do at least 1 damage; if the attack actually hits, it should do some damage right?

 

[NMcCoy]

I'm fairly certain that all attacks do a minimum of 1 damage. I can't say this is RAW, but it makes sense that attacks always do at least 1 damage; if the attack actually hits, it should do some damage right?

Nope - Minimum damage of 1 is a 3.5 rule. 4e damage bottoms out at 0.

 

[eriktheguy]

I also know that the minimum damage is 0, but was unable to find a reference. Kudos to anyone that can dig that up.

 

[Chris Knapp]

In the PHB, Chapter 9, under Resistance and Vulnerability, p276, it says an attack against you can't do less than 0 damage.

Its also repeated in the quickstart rules of H1, I believe.

 

[MrMyth]

I'm fairly certain that all attacks do a minimum of 1 damage. I can't say this is RAW, but it makes sense that attacks always do at least 1 damage; if the attack actually hits, it should do some damage right?

A wizard might have a really easy time punching an unmoving Iron Golem, but that doesn't mean the punch is going to do any damage. At least, not to the golem...

 

[Saagael]

A wizard might have a really easy time punching an unmoving Iron Golem, but that doesn't mean the punch is going to do any damage. At least, not to the golem...

Right. I guess my mistake was thinking that, in your scenario, the golem's armor would be taken care of in the AC. That is, AC is not only hitting, but hitting parts that aren't armored/hard enough to make a dent/etc.

Perhaps more concisely, if your attack roll meets or beats their AC (or F/R/W) then you've not only hit the target, but also hit it some where the blow will deal damage. Resistance being the only way to make an attack reach 0 (in my mind at least). Good to know there's raw on this though.

 

[honeybunch]

In the PHB, Chapter 9, under Resistance and Vulnerability, p276, it says an attack against you can't do less than 0 damage.

Its also repeated in the quickstart rules of H1, I believe.

Thanks a lot for finding that. I was pretty sure that it had to be in the rules somewhere, but I didn't know where.

A bit strange that they put it in the Resistance and Vulnerability section, but I guess they didn't anticipate that there would be powers not related to resistance that would be able to get damage below zero. Still, I think there's no question that it applies more broadly.

(An attack can’t do less than 0 damage to you.)

Does this mean that your attack on an enemy could still do negative damage, by RAW?

Not trying to be a rules monkey or whatever. I'd never argue this in an actual game. But that rule, taken literally, really doesn't touch on negative damage done to NPC creatures.

 

[MrMyth]

Right. I guess my mistake was thinking that, in your scenario, the golem's armor would be taken care of in the AC. That is, AC is not only hitting, but hitting parts that aren't armored/hard enough to make a dent/etc.

Perhaps more concisely, if your attack roll meets or beats their AC (or F/R/W) then you've not only hit the target, but also hit it some where the blow will deal damage. Resistance being the only way to make an attack reach 0 (in my mind at least). Good to know there's raw on this though.

Part of it is how mechanically abstract things can be. Penalties to damage can represent everything from being physically weakened to warding magic dulling one's blows. Outside of actual resistance, I think situations where damage drops below 0 will be few and far between. I suspect it will mainly come up when making attacks one might already be weak at (a wizard's punches, a cleric's thrown dagger, etc) while under some significant crippling effect.