Nerfs for Natural Spell

[Coredump]

To start, this thread is assuming that Natural Spell is overpowered. Thus I don't need a ton of reasons why it isn't overpowered.

My gamers, however, are not big into powergaming, so even overpowered things aren't that worrisome. But I would like to keep the Druid from too outdistancing the rest of the party.

Three ideas:

1) Use the Shape Changing variant from PHB2 (which I have not seen yet.)

2) Make Natural Spell a metamagic feat, so all spells cast while wildshaped are +1 or +2 levels higher.

3) Allow one cast, and each spell after the first 'costs' one use of the shapechange ability.


I am open to comments about these, or other ideas. Thanks.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

If you are going to nerf it, go with option 2. +1 spell level sounds right, +2 being a tad on the heavy side.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Well, the way I look at it, Natural Spell is the equivalent of Still+Silent, which'd be +2, but it isn't nearly as flexible (since it has no effect in your normal form), so +1 seems fine to me.

There are other ways to balance it, though. For instance, you could just say that even with the feat, any attempt to cast a spell while wildshaped requires a Concentration check as if distracted. Figure out a DC that'd give a player a decent chance of failure for their top spells; maybe just equate it to casting defensively.
This makes it the druidic analogue of wizards wearing armor; they gain physical stats/defense, at the cost of making their magic more erratic. Although, to be more like the Wizards, you could just say there's a flat 20% failure rate or something, but I've never liked the arcane spell failure rules.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

You could make Natural Spell be a metamagic effect that makes the spell not take effect until the end of your turn, so you could cast the spell, shift, and benefit from a spell that would otherwise be on an illegal target.

 

[pawsplay]

Well, the way I look at it, Natural Spell is the equivalent of Still+Silent, which'd be +2, but it isn't nearly as flexible (since it has no effect in your normal form), so +1 seems fine to me.

How so? It doesn't give you the ability to cast silently or still. It only circumvents certain limitations of casting in that form.

 

[Spatzimaus]

How so? It doesn't give you the ability to cast silently or still. It only circumvents certain limitations of casting in that form.

What I mean is that a Druid who had Still and Silent feats could remove the non-material components needed for all of his spells, at a cost of +2 levels on every spell. Natural Spell effectively includes the key effects of Still, Silent, and Eschew Materials on every spell cast while wildshaped (although you don't get the full effect; a silence or hold still stops you). I don't count Eschew, really, since non-arcane no-cost material components aren't very common. So, it's basically a situational +2.

A situational +2 is cost-equivalent to a universal +1, ergo Natural Spell as metamagic would be more or less balanced at a +1 cost.

 

[Slaved]

Why not make it something as simple as a metamagic that must be applied when the spell is prepared to allow it to be cast while in other forms? In fact, make it so that spells modified in such a way can 'only' be cast while in animal form.

That way it still has a cost associated with it and you can leave it at +0 adjustment.


Or you could define a subset of the druid spells which are something like 'natural spells' or the like which are the only spells that the feat allows you to cast while in animal form. Make the list as broad or narrow as you like with whatever flavor you prefer. It may take a little more work but it would keep the balance you like and could potentially be great flavor.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Why not make it something as simple as a metamagic that must be applied when the spell is prepared to allow it to be cast while in other forms? In fact, make it so that spells modified in such a way can 'only' be cast while in animal form.

That way it still has a cost associated with it and you can leave it at +0 adjustment.

I like this option, too. Forcing the druid to prepare spells as Natural Spells ahead of time AND upping the level is too harsh for me. Especially the +2. May as well just take Silent and Still Spell at that point. Same effect, but with many other uses. The whole not being able to talk while wildshaped thing forces the druid to switch back and forth if you handle it well as a DM. By making spells exclusively Natural or normal, it's a significant enough nerf to be felt:

"I still have 2 uses of wildshape left, but I used up all my natural spells! What should I do?"

"Hmm, I REALLY need to warn the party about the BBEG's plans I discovered while pretending to be his horse, but I have no more wildshapes today, and all the best spells I have left are Natural..."


EDIT: Actually, in regards to your first sentence, just being a metamagic feat, by definition, causes you to prepare it ahead of time as such (pretty sure :\ ). No need to make any special rules changes.

 

[Notmousse]

You needn't prepare a metamagic enhanced spell ahead of time. In fact if you cast spontainiously you can not prepare spells ahead of time without a feat allowing you to do so. For spontanious casters it is instead a full round action (or an additional full round in the case of long casting time spells) to cast such spells (and they still get the normal level bump they would for prepared spells).

Personally I think it's fine as is, but since you asked for nerfing ideas... I'd make it extend the casting time to a full round action, or in the case of long casting spells add a full round to the casting time.

 

[airwalkrr]

I think making it a metamagic feat with a +1 adjustment to spell level is the perfect fix.