D&D 5E (2014) New Baldur's Gate 3 Video

[Paul Farquhar]

No Bioware game has ever released anywhere near as buggy as either DOS1 or DOS2. Not even close. If you disagree, name the game.

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 for a start.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Solasta. While the story is pretty lackluster, the 5E mechanics are smooth as butter in Solasta. Honestly, there are some things BG3 could learn from Solasta with how it handles one-click resolution for things like jumping around, crawling under or over things, picking locks, etc.

Okay. That's one game--released earlier this year. Do you have another? You did specifically say "games." One moderately-successful game, which launched with only about half the existing classes (Barbarian and Druid from the first DLC, Bard, Warlock and Monk from the second), and only to level 10 (12 with DLC)...it's not exactly selling the "just use the 5e rules as-is!" thing you mentioned, nor the "this is super successful" either. Particularly when it...isn't actually using 5e rules as written, even if it's closer than I expected. They rewrote parts of the Bard, for instance, and very clearly don't use standard HP gain (since Paladins get +11 HP per level, apparently!)

Andromeda was pretty weird. I didn't experience anything gamebreaking, but I saw lots of warped faces and strange physics. Kind of like Skyrim when it just released (bodies clipping through things, rolling away forever, snapping around, etc).

Never played Andromeda myself (Bioware lost my trust with the ME3 ending), but my copy of Skyrim was outright broken, as in, you literally couldn't advance the main quest because Esbern wouldn't open his friggin' door. And that bug? Never got fixed. The only reason I was able to play the game at all is because I got the Unofficial Skyrim Patch--had I been playing on console, it would have literally been an impassable barrier.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 for a start.

Neither of them were anywhere near as buggy as DOS2 at release soooo what's beyond that "start"? Also, hate to break it to you, but that over 20 years ago, and if we're going to bring them in, we need to bring in Divine Divinity and so on, which, again laughably broken on release, never entirely fixed.

 

[Seramus]

Okay. That's one game--released earlier this year. Do you have another? You did specifically say "games." One moderately-successful game, which launched with only about half the existing classes (Barbarian and Druid from the first DLC, Bard, Warlock and Monk from the second), and only to level 10 (12 with DLC)...it's not exactly selling the "just use the 5e rules as-is!" thing you mentioned, nor the "this is super successful" either. Particularly when it...isn't actually using 5e rules as written, even if it's closer than I expected. They rewrote parts of the Bard, for instance, and very clearly don't use standard HP gain (since Paladins get +11 HP per level, apparently!)

Specifically say games? Thing I mentioned? What are you talking about? Please don't conflate me with whoever else you are having an argument with. I'm just chiming in like a friendly peanut gallery.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Specifically say games? Thing I mentioned? What are you talking about? Please don't conflate me with whoever else you are having an argument with. I'm just chiming in like a friendly peanut gallery.

My apologies. I mistook you for @HaroldTheHobbit.

 

[Burnside]

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 for a start.

Yeah. People don't remember, or played them a few years after release when everything was patched and modded, but both had game-breaking bugs at launch and other fairly major ones that persisted for months or even years. Still amazing games, though.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Partially disagree. DOS Act 1 released with very few bugs and was a solid experience, but you are absolutely right that Act 2+ was a mess. DOS2 Act 1-2 was extremely smooth and almost bug free at launch, but Acts 3-4 were a mess. So it's probably better to say that Larian's track record with DOS games is... good launch, but major issues with later acts.

That's not really a disagreement. You can't say "Oh first third of the game was okay!" like that doesn't leave 2/3rds broken lol!

DOS2 was nowhere near bug-free at launch, not even Acts 1/2, though they weren't just a total mess like 3/4.

But I do agree that there their pattern so far has been "Early acts fairly playable, later acts total disaster". Which is the major concern re: BG3, that Act 1 will be pretty solid, then Acts 2/3 will be a car-crash requiring an Enhanced Edition to recover to an even "okay" situation.

One thing that has been interesting to watch is Larian being forced to "dial back" their usual bollocks of making everything either "Terry Pratchett as channelled by 14-year-old home-schooled boy" or "GRIMDARK FANTASY!!!", by BG3's playerbase. They got massive negative feedback on the initial writing and total lack of "be a decent person" options, and had to really turn things around - and for the most part, in Act 1, they have.

But will they have fixed Act 2/3, or will it suddenly become "Forgotten Realms: GRIMDARK EDITION!"? We shall see.

Andromeda was pretty weird. I didn't experience anything gamebreaking, but I saw lots of warped faces and strange physics. Kind of like Skyrim when it just released (bodies clipping through things, rolling away forever, snapping around, etc).

Yeah. It wasn't a very buggy game, and it wasn't missing content, nor did it have a sudden decline in quality as the game went on* (unlike either DOS), but they outsourced a ton of the animation to Singapore and then had to fix it later because the guys in Singapore don't seem like they had much direction/quality control from the rest of Bioware.

The biggest issue with Andromeda was that the script was absolutely dire, and in a peculiar way that suggests it was basically the "first draft" attempt at the story/characters, completely lacking in polish (nonsense-lines like "My face is tired" making to the voice actors instead of "Even my face is tired" seems like an example of this). There are good ideas, just really badly handled, like Ryder is SUPPOSED to grow from this novice to a Shepard-like badass by the end, and there are specific plot moments where this happens, but they're so unpolished and clumsy that it's hard to notice at the time, and it just looks more like Ryder is a "bit random" lol.

* = In fact it was downright weird because the LATER parts of the game are a lot more together than some of the early ones. I've never seen that before in a videogame. I dunno what happened to lead to that, except maybe that because Aaryn Flynn was pulling loads of people off Andromeda to work on Anthem, he maybe let them have everyone back eventually, when the game was partially complete?

Yeah. People don't remember, or played them a few years after release when everything was patched and modded, but both had game-breaking bugs at launch and other fairly major ones that persisted for months or even years.

This IS a competition though (because Paul demanded it be), and compared to DOS1/2 they were fine (i.e. they all contained plenty of game-breaking bugs etc., but fundamentally BG1/2 were more stable - at least for their era), and compared to Divine Divinity, which is what Larian were doing closer to that time, they were masterpieces of programming - BG2 particularly.

I will say, Bioware from the '90s through KotOR was a lot worse on the bug front than Bioware from Mass Effect onwards. I suspect the Infinity Engine might be part of this (which even KotOR was built on a relative of, IIRC).

 

[Seramus]

But I do agree that there their pattern so far has been "Early acts fairly playable, later acts total disaster". Which is the major concern re: BG3, that Act 1 will be pretty solid, then Acts 2/3 will be a car-crash requiring an Enhanced Edition to recover to an even "okay" situation.

This is the biggest thing for me. I'm sure I'll have plenty of fun with BG3, but I feel like waiting for the inevitable Enhanced Edition will be the best use of my time. To be fair, lots of studios have been going this way. Owlcat is 2 for 2 on hilariously buggy releases that eventually become pretty solid and enjoyable games. Solasta was basically playable, but lots of scripting issues plagued it at launch. Etc.

I don't like it. I wish they were great at launch. But I WILL give money to companies that eventually give me a good game.

 

[MGibster]

The old lady isn't Jalhera. Jalhera looks much as ever, just a little older. Try running the trailer without sound and using pause at 29s.

At 29s she just looks like a generic elf to me and there's nothing that makes her recognizable to me. The graphics are so different and it's been so long since I played BGII that I wouldn't have even recognized Minsc without his distinctive tattoos.

 

[Seramus]

At 29s she just looks like a generic elf to me and there's nothing that makes her recognizable to me. The graphics are so different and it's been so long since I played BGII that I wouldn't have even recognized Minsc without his distinctive tattoos.

I didn't recognize her visually either. I AM holding out hope for a Viconia appearance.