New Design & Development: Paladin Smites!

[Hyudra]

My problem with the smites isn't tied to the crunch... it's tied to the narrowness of it.

I'd be fine with these smites as a class ability, generally speaking, except for the fact that it only applies to three or so gods in a vast pantheon. For paladins who supposedly aren't tied to the lawful good alignment anymore, it still sticks pretty resolutely to the lawful and good axis.

• That other guy is a paladin of Bahamut. He's a protector of law and order, of justice and the scourge of evil. He smites his foes while protecting or healing his allies.
  
• I'm playing a paladin of Kord, let's say. He's the dragonslayer, a champion of martial strength, and as a holy warrior of his temple I... smite my foes while protecting or healing my allies.

I was kind of hoping smites would be a flexible, variable feature. I hope we can build our characters with or without some of these features, especially if they're all going to stick so closely to the 'archetypical' class.

 

[The Little Raven]

My problem with the smites isn't tied to the crunch... it's tied to the narrowness of it.

Making judgments with such little information reminds me of that old parable about the blind men who all feel a different part of an animal, and come to completely different conclusions than eachother... and they all end up being totally wrong about the animal.

 

[Abstraction]

My problem with the smites isn't tied to the crunch... it's tied to the narrowness of it.

I'd be fine with these smites as a class ability, generally speaking, except for the fact that it only applies to three or so gods in a vast pantheon. For paladins who supposedly aren't tied to the lawful good alignment anymore, it still sticks pretty resolutely to the lawful and good axis.

Well, you are your own ally, so I assume he evil guys just heal themselves. That doesn't make them all that different mechanically, but you can always add a little flavor on top.

 

[Sir Brennen]

My problem with the smites isn't tied to the crunch... it's tied to the narrowness of it.

I'd be fine with these smites as a class ability, generally speaking, except for the fact that it only applies to three or so gods in a vast pantheon. For paladins who supposedly aren't tied to the lawful good alignment anymore, it still sticks pretty resolutely to the lawful and good axis.

???

The Chaotic Evil guy just says "Screw the rest of you! I'm healin' myself!"

Smite!

Plus, we don't know what other smite abilities (or even class features) paladins will have.

I will concede, at first glance, that your Kord example is a pretty good one where the paladin might be more inclined to be a glory hound and less concerned with allies. Perhaps there's a Smite which boosts Str or gives some other, more appropriate, bonus?

I think the "design space" (is that the newest buzz phrase?) allows for creation of new smiting abilities more specific to the paladin's deity as well.

 

[The Little Raven]

Well, you are your own ally, so I assume he evil guys just heal themselves. That doesn't make them all that different mechanically, but you can always add a little flavor on top.

And I don't see why people immediately assume that evil people don't actually have feelings or loyalty... or that they may use their healing smite powers to keep their allies alive because dead allies are useless.

I mean hell, even Hitler was in love, and I think we can all agree that he was evil.

 

[Abstraction]

And I don't see why people immediately assume that evil people don't actually have feelings or loyalty... or that they may use their healing smite powers to keep their allies alive because dead allies are useless.

I mean hell, even Hitler was in love, and I think we can all agree that he was evil.

Hitler was very complex. A vegetarian, loved his dog. Actually, a pretty good model for a complex villain.

 

[KingCrab]

Indeed. Evil (cleric) people not being able to heal their companions on the fly was something that really annoyed me. Good clerics may very well wish to cause wounds on an evil moster that is attacking them, and evil clerics very much wish to preserve themselves (maybe moreso than a self sacrificing good cleric.) They should have either given both good and evil just the ability to heal, or they should have given both good an evil the ability to heal or harm.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I was kind of hoping smites would be a flexible, variable feature. I hope we can build our characters with or without some of these features, especially if they're all going to stick so closely to the 'archetypical' class.

Well, despite the fact that you can use your smites for your own good, look at the way the smites are designed, including "Paladin 1". I guess there is a small smite list, similar to a spell list, so you'll probably get some choice to model more brutal, less defensive paladins.

Cheers, LT.

 

[KingCrab]

Well, despite the fact that you can use your smites for your own good, look at the way the smites are designed, including "Paladin 1". I guess there is a small smite list, similar to a spell list, so you'll probably get some choice to model more brutal, less defensive paladins.

Cheers, LT.

I hope this is the case. Of course then there is the issue of balancing all these changes so that not every paladin has to choose the exact same smites. That is an extremely difficult thing to do. I do hope they've been playtesting the hell out of this system.

 

[MerricB]

I hope this is the case. Of course then there is the issue of balancing all these changes so that not every paladin has to choose the exact same smites. That is an extremely difficult thing to do. I do hope they've been playtesting the hell out of this system.

No, I'm afraid not. They've just been throwing darts at a board and picking the feats that way.