New Design: Wizards...

[Kunimatyu]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. I mean, if you're changing the name anyway, it doesn't matter what you're changing it from. And for those who look to the books for inspiration as well as information, "Iron Sigil" is, at least potentially, a lot more evocative than "orb-enhanced magic."

Let me rephrase that. If it's a mechanical division for game-balance purposes(and why else do you group force and lightning, for example?), then I'd prefer that you keep it a basic mechanic distinction with some available options for flavor, rather than grafting the flavor directly to the mechanics.

I *really*, really don't want to have to explain to my players why they can't have an "Emerald Flame" discipline with both acid and flame, y'know?

 

[Olthynn]

I completely agree about the flavor text. I just prefer that to be the job of the DM and players at the table rather than the core books, which are supposed to be setting neutral. You can't create organizations and still claim setting neutrality.

Agreed. In my opinion, the PHB should just present the spells that are in play. Then, if I feel inclined to, I can select the fire spells and say that I study the ancient tradition of the Hidden Flame. Or, if I want, I can select the fire spells and just say I like fire. Or maybe I'll create a new wizarding school with like-minded colleagues based around summoning, fire, and spells with funny names and I'll make my own tradition. The point is, the choice regarding the flavor for my character should be mine.

If they want to put some stuff into the PHB about how to create interesting flavor for my wizard to try and spark my imagination, awesome, that'd be great. But don't just create some flavor for me and make that the basis for the structure of the magic system and its implements. That's just poor design.

 

[Snapdragyn]

I really wish people could get past the idea that names = organization. That is an assumption, & IMO a poor one. We don't expect Transmutation organizations in 3.xe just because Transmutation exists as a school of magic; I likewise see no reason to expect Serpent's Eye as an organization (as opposed to named tradition) in 4e.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

We don't expect Transmutation organizations in 3.xe just because Transmutation exists as a school of magic; I likewise see no reason to expect Serpent's Eye as an organization (as opposed to named tradition) in 4e.

I'd rather Serpent's Eye IS an organization than the name of category of the spells.

 

[Rechan]

I really wish people could get past the idea that names = organization. That is an assumption, & IMO a poor one. We don't expect Transmutation organizations in 3.xe just because Transmutation exists as a school of magic; I likewise see no reason to expect Serpent's Eye as an organization (as opposed to named tradition) in 4e.

Hell, being an "Serpent Eye wizard" may be no different than being called a Transmuter.

 

[F4NBOY]

I am the servant of the Serpent Eye, wielder of the Orb of Shadows!
I am the servant of the Hidden Flame, wielder of the Staff of Hellfire!
I am the servant of the Iron Sigil, wielder of the Eye of Moradin!
I am the servant of the Emerald Frost, wielder of the Frozen Finger!
I am the servant of the Stormwalker, wielder of the Wand of Thunder!

They don't look so cheesy or too fluffy. Try shouting them in front of a big demon, it looks like kinda cool! Roleplaying aficionados can't say they aren't adding RP tools in the PHB .

 

[Kunimatyu]

Hell, being an "Serpent Eye wizard" may be no different than being called a Transmuter.

Perhaps, but it sure sounds like an organization name at first glance, doesn't it?

 

[JoelF]

I liked the new article a lot more than the first version. Not only did they ditch the crazy image of the wizard desperatly trying to get to the right page in the Tome mid battle "please stop swinging your club at me, Ogre, while I try to get to the page on burning hands", but I think three is a lot more manageable, with one being a specialty, instead of wizards trying to juggle 2 or more of the four in any given fight. I also like the re-structuring of the effects of the wand, I couldn't get over that it was good at blasting far away but also really useful for target: personal spells.

As for the discipline names, I don't mind them, or love them. I think it's fine to call them something like that instead of just saying Evocation specialists, and by having them be tied to specific magical traditions (and possibly talent trees) it leaves the door wide open for new disciplines with new names and game effects to fit your campaign world (and D&D Insider content.)

Overall I felt that the system described originally was too clunky, and the new version seems a lot more streamlined.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Hell, being an "Serpent Eye wizard" may be no different than being called a Transmuter.

Then they should just call it Transmutation. "Serpent's Eye" tells me nothing. It's verbiage. It's useless. It's a big frickin' impediment to understanding and rules mastery. Transmute, Illusion, Necro-, ... these words actually mean something. They have roots in the Latin / Enlgish speaking traditions. They help me understand what a spell is supposed to do; how it's supposed to work.

I like that they got rid of "Tome". Good change.

The tradition names are crap. For the reasons stated many times and more eloquently in this thread, it's a big pile of flavor-crap in my homebrew. It's an overly strong stench of implied setting in the Forgotten Realms campaign I want to run.

Also, the new groupings make no sense at all. They look like they were compiled by someone who was told "make these balance", and no consideration at all was given to whether they made any sense. No consideration was given to whether DM's would want to combine elements of collumn A and B under the same umbrella.

Grrrr. I was ambivalent about the non-revised article. The revised article really bothers me. I hope, STRONGLY HOPE, that the game continues to be in flux.

The f4anboys will love it anyway unconditionally, so I hope WotC throws the rest of us a bone here.

 

[Korgoth]

"Iron Sigil"
"Golden Wyvern"
"Hidden Flame"
Mountainous Defecation"

Definitely the most foolish creative decision made by WOTC so far. My estimation of the creative 'talents' of these guys has definitely gone from "poor" to "I'd consider firing them if I was their boss".

Isn't there someone actually in charge over there? How does some of this stuff get past the "Get the hell out of my office" phase of development?

Totally stupid stuff. Here's hoping they change it.