New Greyhawk Hardcover

[Nightfall]

Yeah well undead settings some times become living ones. I think Scarred Lands is undead.

 

[Shade]

It remains to be seen about Ravenloft, however, Birthright, Dark Sun, Jakandor, The Known World, etc. are pretty much as dead as dead can be.

For the moment. I wouldn't be surprised to see most of them return at some point (maybe no time soon)...with the frequent changing of the guard at WotC, all it takes is the right person to get into an influential position to greenlight their favorite old setting.

With the success of the Campaign Classics and Dark Sun issues of Dragon, and the reacquisition of the Ravenloft license, I believe WotC has begun to see that the demand for the older settings is still strong. I'm sure they're still leery about the whole "too many settings kills the market" issue, but I think if they tread carefully they'll be fine.

I know I'll buy just about anything they put out on the old settings.

Jakandor, though...very, very doubtful.

 

[Jupp]

For the moment. I wouldn't be surprised to see most of them return at some point (maybe no time soon)...with the frequent changing of the guard at WotC, all it takes is the right person to get into an influential position to greenlight their favorite old setting.

Hehe, it's like when you have a new boss. And you just cannot stand that guy. But the company is too cool to just leave because of him. Then comes the time "waiting it out". Having said that I wouldn't be surprised if some of those settings of the past would make a comeback in the not so near future.

Then 3 years are over and a new boss comes in: "Hey guys. That old Al-Quadim setting you had there some years ago. That was cool! Let us make a hardcover release will all-new shiny thingies in it!"

*dreams on*

 

[JustaPlayer]

I think we'll see all the settings get breif coverage soon. Soon being within the next 1.5 years or so. It's a sure time 4e is coming. If you look at the goings on now, it's comparable to the end of 2e. Anyone esle remember House of Strad? No doubt in my mind there will be some kind of epic G-D-Q book or something of the like coming.

 

[Welverin]

I believed for years now that if they, restricted themselves to one hardcover, the way they did with Ghostwalk, that things would work out fine. At least financially.

There would be no fracturing of the market and no support problems, because it would be little different from any other sourcebook.

Tell my wife I said, "Hello."

I'm sure I'll see her at the next Zapp Brannigan convention.

 

[BOZ]

Hmm....Eric Mona likes Planescape, doesn't he? He was involved in writing th Fiendish Codex. He's reading up on the history of the game....which, from what he posted, might be taken partly as the history of the planes...

Is it possible this dream project is something Planescape related? Or maybe that's just wishful thinking....

i'm doubting that, unless the relation is tangential as it was in FC1. two reasons: 1) i highly doubt that WotC will ever attempt to resurrect Planescape as a setting (rather than continuing to purloin elements from it as they've been doing since the start of 3E), and 2) Erik *likes* Planescape, but he *loves* greyhawk.

 

[Ripzerai]

Planescape seems thoroughly part of Core, now. It was briefly its own campaign setting because the paradigm of the late '80s to middle '90s was campaign settings - I don't think the paradigm is likely to shift back, as they've seen the danger of that.

The problem seems to have been - so Ryan Dancey claimed - that people bought stuff relating to their favored campaign setting and nothing else, and avoided things relating specifically to settings they weren't into, and the market wasn't big enough for that. I think the problem can be avoided by limiting new settings to a single hardcover, preventing people from getting "addicted" to just one line. The Forgotten Realms is close to Core, and they tried, with Eberron, to create a setting into which any new supplement could be integrated. I imagine you could even fit most of the Fiendish Codex I into Eberron, excepting of course the chapter on layers. Obyriths could be minions of the Rajahs, and loumaras could come from the Dreaming Dark, while tanar'ri and their lords would all be from Sheverath (Juiblex's power level even makes sense there). So while there's a problem with FR fans not buying Eberron books, it's not as bad as Ravenloft fans not buying Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, FR, Planescape, or Birthright.

I think the Planar Handbook killed the chances of a true Planescape hardcover for the foreseeable future, introducing a lot of the Planescape elements but not all of them. By bringing Sigil and many of the factions into the "mainstream," it made most of what would have been in a Planescape hardcover redundant, removing any platform for presenting the rest of the setting - I mean, what would it be, Planar Handbook II? Maybe if Planar Handbook I had been a better book, there'd be a demand for that, but I doubt it. It also stripped all the factions of the context in which they made sense - when they're introduced as "clans" that most PCs will belong to, as part of a larger philosophical war that stretches across the planes, they work. As a few scattered prestige classes, they seem not intuitively "planar," leaving a lot of people I'm sure to wonder why they were in the book at all. I think the designers of the book forgot they needed to sell the material in it to the uninitiated, which required a lot more contextual effort.

So anyway, no new Planescape books, at least not until 4th edition when maybe the material can be reintroduced in context.

Maybe a Greyhawk book, though - something that could tie all the proper nouns strung through the core books and Dungeon Magazines together might be popular, if it was done well and provocatively. I don't think it would get supplements, however.

But what do I know? Maybe they don't subscribe to Ryan Dancey's philosophy at all anymore. Maybe the market's big enough to handle it.

 

[Shade]

The problem seems to have been - so Ryan Dancey claimed - that people bought stuff relating to their favored campaign setting and nothing else, and avoided things relating specifically to settings they weren't into, and the market wasn't big enough for that. I think the problem can be avoided by limiting new settings to a single hardcover, preventing people from getting "addicted" to just one line. The Forgotten Realms is close to Core, and they tried, with Eberron, to create a setting into which any new supplement could be integrated. I imagine you could even fit most of the Fiendish Codex I into Eberron, excepting of course the chapter on layers. Obyriths could be minions of the Rajahs, and loumaras could come from the Dreaming Dark, while tanar'ri and their lords would all be from Sheverath (Juiblex's power level even makes sense there). So while there's a problem with FR fans not buying Eberron books, it's not as bad as Ravenloft fans not buying Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, FR, Planescape, or Birthright.

While I can kind of see their thought process behind this, I don't see how it actually plays out to their advantage. They currently offer only FR and Eberron. I don't care for Eberron, so I don't buy any Eberron products. If they offered Planescape, Dark Sun, Mystara, etc., I'd buy them. So instead of my dollars being spent on the one campaign setting I'm into and nothing else, they get none of my dollars. And even though I like FR, I don't buy every product, and I don't buy more of them because I'm not buying Eberron products. Now maybe I'm an anomaly and like multiple settings, but it still strikes me as an odd approach.

Supposedly, their research has shown that the majority of folks run homebrew worlds rather than prepackaged campaign settings. These folks should theoretically be just as likely to buy a Birthright or Ravenloft product as a FR or Eberron product, as they all can be mined equally for ideas.

I agree with you that the single hardcover approach would probably work well for selling multiple campaign settings. If nothing else, it would allow them to gauge the interest levels in the different settings (or the content they include).

 

[qstor]

Possibly a new Greyhawk hardcover could cover the nations, organizations, and personalities of the setting with some advice on how the setting works. (Mind you, there is a lot of good material for people to draw on for a hardcover, such as Sean K. Reynold's excellent 2nd edition product the Scarlet Brotherhood. Even if a person does not use the Greyhawk setting, some of the organizations can be adapted to other settings. For example, a racist organization similar to the Scarlet Brotherhood can work in many settings -- as can an order of knighthood, such as the Knights of Veluna who protect a specific region and have specific foes.)

Erik tried to get one out by WOTC a few years ago but was rebuffed. I seriously doubt there will be a Greyhawk hardback out from WOTC. There's too much material that has been done by the Living Greyhawk Triads for it all to fit in one book. Maybe its a Ravenloft or Planscape book?

Mike

 

[Ripzerai]

There's too much material that has been done by the Living Greyhawk Triads for it all to fit in one book.

That material isn't solely owned by WotC, and couldn't be included without permission. I don't think having more than enough material is a reason to not make a book anyway.

As for your first point, WotC is a different place than it was a few years ago.

I don't think it could be an actual Planescape book (for the reasons I gave a few posts above), but it could be another book about the planes.

Possibilities:

- Modrons of Mechanus
- Armies of Heaven
- Concordance of the Outlands
- The Inner Planes
- Parallel Material Planes

Also, I forget: do we know it's a WotC book, or could it be something for Malhavoc?