New GSL Announcement

[Jack99]

Uh - yes, that's the way the OGL works. Your decision is whether or not to publish a game under the OGL. Once you do make that decision, the game is open, and there's not further decisions to be made regarding that fact. So yes, the publishers had a choice in the first place, but once it's OGL it's OGL. Best you can do is make the next version not open. Your question is worded very confusingly, but that should cover it.

Sorry if my English confuses you. Both my Danish and French is significantly better, but I suspect that you will find it even more confusing, if I posted in those languages...

I am just trying to figure out how to compare what WoTC did when they made the OGL, with what the 3PP who have kept the games, they have made under the OGL (or were made possible due to the OGL), open.

Speaking as someone who never was interested in this (prior to now), it seems that WoTC gave up so much more than the others, and yet, some people equate that now, that WoTC wants to make a more closed system.

We all talk back and forth on how much the OGL has helped WOTC, but don't you think WoTC knows this best, or at least has the most information to make an educated guess? What if those numbers showed that they most likely lost money due to the OGL. Is it really unfair of them, when they try not to make the same mistake again?

Again, I have to admit that I know very little of the industry, other than what I read on these boards, and no-one seems to agree on these points. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I find it very hard to understand why people in general are getting so worked up over this GSL contra OGL thing. It's WoTC's game, if they ask people to focus only on 4e if they wish to get a piece of the pretty big pie, it seems totally reasonable to me. It seems there is a little bit too much of feeling entitled, despite all the work is being done by WoTC.

Anyway, I am rambling now,

Cheers

 

[SSquirrel]

I guess I'm interested in protecting companies that have done right by me for years. Green Ronin, Malhavoc, and many others...let me just say right now that I have cancelled my bn.com preorder for the three-book set. Because with this new rule I can DEFINITELY foresee WOTC doing a new version in a year or two, revoking the last GSL, and demanding that everyone follow along.

A new version of the GSL or of D&D? If you are saying a new version of D&D in 1 or 2 years then I'm just going to laugh at you. If you mean the GSL, WotC has updated the OGL license along the way, but people could use older versions of the OGL b/c it already exists and there is no way to revoke it. I'll be very interested to see if WoTC is able to close up the license so that once a new license version is issued the old one can no longer be utilized.

We won't know for at least 2 weeks if that situation is even a concern. I suggest everyone spend the next couple of weeks enjoying your games and just hold on and let Scott get back to us with the most accurate information he can give us. Personally, I would rather see exact and specific information instead of "Now I could be wrong since this license has changed several times and the most recent version isn't in my hands, but I believe you can do X or Y" Think and maybe are not what I want to hear. Yes, no, definitely, affirmative are the words in question.

 

[mxyzplk]

Surely, someone at WotC knows what the intent behind that part of the license is.

Heh - knows, yes, gonna tell us, no.

 

[JohnRTroy]

Heh - knows, yes, gonna tell us, no.

It's not really our business to know their motivations. Being consumers doesn't mean we have the right to know the whys of every decision made by a company.

 

[SSquirrel]

I find this insulting.

Apparently you've never created a PDF and tried to sell it. It takes alot more than a "pdf-program and some imagination."

Personally I read this and saw someone describing the situation in simplest terms. That truly IS the core of the issue. It's like electronic musicians who are now able to have a laptop computer, some tracking software, a keyboard and produce quality music. It happens all the time.

Before you were publishing, you were just playing and/or running games and maybe writing up ideas you had and saving them off. Now, w/the ability to publish quickly and cheaply online, you can just type things up, pretty it up with some illustrations and put it up for download or sale. How is that not accurate? I'm sorry if you found what he said insulting, but I just don't see it.

 

[Settembrini]

Scott said:

First and foremost, we are trying to design the license to best support our business, the business of selling 4e products. We want third party publishers to support 4e. We want them to move forward with us.

Mmm. So 4e isn´t good enough to make people switch? Because using a license to ensure everyone comes along definitely gives the impression of lack of faith in the product.

In other words: WotC seems to be more optimistic about Pathfinder than even Paizo is.

YMMV of course.

 

[Wicht]

We all talk back and forth on how much the OGL has helped WOTC, but don't you think WoTC knows this best, or at least has the most information to make an educated guess?

I wonder about this, especially as Rouse (and I paraphrase) just recently admitted that WotC did benefit from the OGL but he wasn't too sure the benefit could be quantified.

 

[GMSkarka]

It's not really our business to know their motivations. Being consumers doesn't mean we have the right to know the whys of every decision made by a company.

Some of us AREN'T consumers. Some of us are businesses that have had a major part of our operational plans in a constant holding pattern since January, and would just like to know if this all-or-nothing rumor is true or not, so we can get on with our livelihoods.

Not asking for legal opinion, not asking for exact language -- just asking whether or not that's the intention of the license -- which they obviously know.

 

[mxyzplk]

A new version of the GSL or of D&D? If you are saying a new version of D&D in 1 or 2 years then I'm just going to laugh at you. If you mean the GSL, WotC has updated the OGL license along the way, but people could use older versions of the OGL b/c it already exists and there is no way to revoke it. I'll be very interested to see if WoTC is able to close up the license so that once a new license version is issued the old one can no longer be utilized.

We won't know for at least 2 weeks if that situation is even a concern. I suggest everyone spend the next couple of weeks enjoying your games and just hold on and let Scott get back to us with the most accurate information he can give us. Personally, I would rather see exact and specific information instead of "Now I could be wrong since this license has changed several times and the most recent version isn't in my hands, but I believe you can do X or Y" Think and maybe are not what I want to hear. Yes, no, definitely, affirmative are the words in question.

1. The OGL can't be revoked or changed "out from under" someone because that's specified in the license. It's the "secret sauce" that makes a license open, like in software open source licenses. The GSL, like the old d20 STL, is a proprietary license which may be changed at any time for any reason by the license owner

2. I don't intend on "simmering down" because this is the window of opportunity to make a difference. I'm sure what the WotC lawyers would like to have happen is
a. We announce new GSL!
b. Everyone is happy because they think we're "still open."
c. People will buy 4e and 3p companies will make their support plans.
d. When the truth comes out, it'll be too late and will only get minor "retraction" style press.
e. Profit.

 

[mxyzplk]

It's not really our business to know their motivations. Being consumers doesn't mean we have the right to know the whys of every decision made by a company.

But we do have the right to assk, to demand an answer, to take our business elsewhere, to complain about the company's practices, to organize boycotts, or whatnot. Yes, again, everyone knows companies *can* do whatever the heck they want, especially in the US. But that doesn't mean no consequences for it.