New Marvel RPG?

[BrockBallingdark]

Let's see. M&M strips the d20 system down to the chasis and build it back up. It has no classes, no levels (power levels are not D&D levels), no hit points. Armor reduces damage not make you harder to hit. It has no Vancian system. It only uses a d20. And each version moves farther away from the d20 roots. Calling it Super D&D seems like an ignorant statement.

Whatever man, your high post count must mean I'm ignorant. Oh it's a Supers D&D.. nothing wrong with that but not my bag baby.

Brock

 

[Greg K]

Whatever man, your high post count must mean I'm ignorant. Oh it's a Supers D&D.. nothing wrong with that but not my bag baby.

Brock

It has nothing to do with my post count. It is, perfectly, fine that it is not your bag. However, all you did was state an opinion with nothing to back it up. In contrast, it has been demonstrated by many others here and rpg.net to the two or three people claiming it is supers D&D that such claims are based on ignorance and no understanding of the system. And like myself, they have shown the significant differences between the two systems to demonstrate it.

If you are going to make such a claim, back it up with evidence to support it.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I don't care about comic books or superheroes and I'm interested in this game.

 

[teitan]

Whatever man, your high post count must mean I'm ignorant. Oh it's a Supers D&D.. nothing wrong with that but not my bag baby.

Brock

And the issue is though that you are DEMONSTRABLY wrong. To say M&M is anything like D&D demonstrates your ignorance in the worst possible way. M&M is point buy, it is just as versatile as the Hero System. The only similar element to D&D is the D20 mechanic which isn't levels etc. it is roll a D20, add modifiers and beat a target number. Period. It even has different attributes etc in the most recent iteration because they wanted to get away from ignorant opinions like this one.

 

[Cam Banks]

Thanks to Greg K for assembling that info.

One of my favorite things about the RPG.net thread (we're onto our third one now, actually) is that for the most part folks are not down on other games, but interested in hearing what Marvel Heroic Roleplaying does that's different or similar.

I wouldn't call it an indie game at all. Sure, I borrow from indie/small press games all the time, but I think most people are going to find it plays pretty action/adventure well. If your definition of indie is "has no hit points, traditional stats, or levels" then I think that rules out a lot of indie games, also.

I'm happy to answer any and all questions about the game, my design philosophy, what's in it, etc etc. There have been a few podcast interviews with me about it already; the latest is on the Jennisodes. Go take a listen. I have a funny accent.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[fireinthedust]

Cam: first, respect for coming and talking directly to fans.

second: the game looks neat, and congrats on the license!

Third: Will the dice be rolled individually, or do they add together somehow?



M&M=D&D: While I don't agree with this, I do see where he's coming from in that it's a d20 game. It looks similar in many respects to D&D. Also, one can play a fantasy game with it (remember W&W? No? Well, they made it anyway and it was a great read). As well, if it weren't for how M&M took apart the d20 system, I wouldn't have understood 3e as well as I do.

However, no Supers game can play like a D&D game if the characters don't collect treasure from opponents they can regularly use. The structure of gameplay (xp, treasure, levels, equipment) is fundamentally different: Spider-man lives for the thrill of being him and doing the right thing. He doesn't change as he goes on, he simply gets to go back to start and keep going. Maybe he gets to join the Avengers and use Tony's place, but that's not upping his "level". He doesn't get to be "more" spider-man, he's as much him as he's going to get.

Which is weird, I guess. But that's okay.

Maybe since M&M allows characters to improve with pp... but still, that only lasts so long before the characters go outside their own concepts.

 

[Greg K]

Thanks to Greg K for assembling that info.

no problem Cam. Even if, at the moment, it does not appear to be my tastes, you guys put out good games.

I wouldn't call it an indie game at all. Sure, I borrow from indie/small press games all the time, but I think most people are going to find it plays pretty action/adventure well. If your definition of indie is "has no hit points, traditional stats, or levels" then I think that rules out a lot of indie games, also.

I am familiar with with many different indie/small press games and know that they come in many forms. Some look appealing upon first look and I want to give a run (e.g., Dread (non-Jenga), Little Fears: Nightmares Edition, Lady Blackbird, Better Game's various Freestyle Roleplaying (if I can ever replace my stolen copies) ). Some sound interesting based upon what I have heard, but my opinion may change once I see the mechanics (Part-time Gods, Cartoon Action Hour Season 2, Crime Network, Terror Network), Some just are not to my taste, but I can see why people like them (e.g., Barbarians of Lemuria, FATE, FUDGE). Many, I just don't like (e.g., Capes. Cat, Primetime Adventures, Dogs in the Vineyard, With Great Power) and may even find pretentious as well.

From what I have seen discussed about the new Marvel Game, I feel fine describing it as "indie" style (based on what we know today)

Some things that I feel lend credence when taken as whole: no traditional ability scores, FATE like Distinctions, individual milestones for XP tied to the event, Negotiating character design rather than including a random or point based generation system. Narrative Focus. There are several indie games that have won indie industry awards that are closer to more traditional mechanics.

Hell, there is a whole thread at RPG.NET by Cortex+ fans about how Cortex+ is stealth indie design.

And, it is not, necessarily, a bad thing.

 

[Greg K]

It looks similar in many respects to D&D. Also, one can play a fantasy game with it (remember W&W? No? Well, they made it anyway and it was a great read). As well, if it weren't for how M&M took apart the d20 system, I wouldn't have understood 3e as well as I do.

Of course, W&W mentions it is designed to cover fantasy as covered in comic books (e.g., Conan, Kull, Claw, Warlord, etc.) and not D&D.

Maybe since M&M allows characters to improve with pp... but still, that only lasts so long before the characters go outside their own concepts.

Increases in Power level in M&M are optional. The GM is not required to increase the Power Level. It is state as a suggestion. If the GM wants, they can allow the character to broaden or increase until they hit the power level caps. It is not as if there are not examples of characters in the comics acquiring new skills, tricks, or gadgets or improving existing ones. And there are examples of characters improving in power level. Some examples:

The original New Mutants
Cage (i.e, Power-man)
Invisible Woman
Iceman
Nova (Richard Rider)
Psylocke
Rogue

 

[fireinthedust]

true, but if you increase too much you get over-powered heroes. Some hero concepts don't necessarily need to expand. Once you get all the combat feats, for example, a vigilante will need to start getting equipment, maybe wealth, all that stuff, simply to buy up more pp. They can't get higher than the human max without breaking concept for ability scores.

It will take some time, of course. I played in a pbp game for years and we barely added anything (pbp or not) to our characters. RL games, though, i can see growing fairly quickly.

 

[Relique du Madde]

true, but if you increase too much you get over-powered heroes. Some hero concepts don't necessarily need to expand. Once you get all the combat feats, for example, a vigilante will need to start getting equipment, maybe wealth, all that stuff, simply to buy up more pp. They can't get higher than the human max without breaking concept for ability scores.

It will take some time, of course. I played in a pbp game for years and we barely added anything (pbp or not) to our characters. RL games, though, i can see growing fairly quickly.

Yet, the CORTEX Marvel game has an XP system, so I'm pretty sure they will have similar issues to PPs and the accruement of power since I'm certain that the XP will be used to boost powers/abilities and gain new specialties or something.