New Paladin...no spells, more abilities

[Broken Fang]

What do you all think? I don't like the spell casting Paladins and Rangers and this is teh first test to change Paladins. Spells have been replaced by new abilities and some of them have been moved around.

Paladins DO NOT cast spells!
Special Abilities:
1 - Detect Evil, Smite Evil.........................11
2 - Lay on Hands, Divine Health...............12 - Smite Evil x3
3 - Aura of Courage, Divine Grace............13 - Beacon of Hope
4 - Turn Undead.......................................14
5..............................................................15
6 - Smite Evil x2.......................................16 - Lay on Hands x2
7 - Call Blessings.....................................17
8..............................................................18 - Smite Evil x4
9 - Lay on Hands x1.5.............................19
10 - Righteous Shield..............................20 - Holy Avatar

Call Blessing – A Paladin may use this ability a number of times per day equal to his level. Call Blessing allows a Paladin to call down favor from his deity and do any of the following: Bless, Bless Weapon, Create Food & Water, Cure Light Wounds, Divine Favor, or Shield of Faith.
Righteous Shield – A Paladin may use this ability a number of per day equal to his Charisma modifier. When using Righteous Shield the Paladin gains the following protection for one minute per level: Death Ward, Endure Elements (all), and Spell Resistance.
Beacon of Hope – A Paladin may use this ability once per day. All allies within 50’ of the Paladin gain the following effects for one minute per level of the Paladin: immune to Fear and Fear-like effects, Aid, Magic Circle against Evil, and automatic stabilization if reduced to negative Hit Points.
Holy Avatar – A Paladin may use this once per year! The Paladin becomes infused with power from his deity. This provides him with the following effects for 10 minutes: TBA

Lay on Hands x1.5 and x2 provides 1.5 and 2x their normal healing amount. Smite x2,3,4 allows for extra Smite attempts.

Holy Avatar will be pretty nasty with some lingering effects on its user. Please comment.

 

[Broken Fang]

Sorry for the messy table.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I'm not sure how this stacks up in terms of balance.

Paladins lose:
-2 levels of undead turning ability. (This will dramatically weaken them against undead).
-Spells: Spells are much more flexible than the new abilities--dispel magic, undetectable alignment, discern lie, heal mount, etc were possibilities.
-Special Mounts: Can be really cool or really useless depending upon the campaign and the palyer's creativity. . . .

In return, they get:
-Extra smiting (always good, but not the same kind of smack down material when paladins have no special incentive (special mount) to combine it with spirited charge).
-Double lay on hands ability (This could be incredibly deadly to undead as demonstrated by the paladin in Wulf's Story Hour thread). It would also make the paladin much more effective as a healer.
-Call blessings: This is like 1st level spellcasting but more limited (fewer spells) and much more available.
-Righteous Shield: Wow! This is a very powerful ability (5 1st level spells, one 3rd level spell, and one 5th level spell IIRC probably three to five times per day)--I assume that this is a standard action just like turning.
-Beacon of Hope: This is really cool but I don't know why it comes after Righteous Shield--it's not even in the same league. I'd switch the two abilities.
-Holy Avatar: potentially very powerful but more of a plot device than anything else (usable once per year). I would much prefer to change this out for something like Transcendance (become an outsider, get DR 20/+1, maybe a few weak resistances, and look cool or something like that). A paladin being able to choose to become his god's avatar doesn't seem right; it seems like the god should be the one doing the choosing--even if the paladin is 20th level.

On the whole, I think that these translate into a substantial increase in the power of the paladin although I'm not certain it would be unbalanced. I recommend playtesting.

 

[Broken Fang]

Thanks EB...we will be play testing it in an up-coming campaign (starts 3/9). I wanted to make the Paladin the guy who would be the general of the church's army. I might end up toning down some of his abilities and switching teh two like you suggested. We will be watching how it works...I think currently he is much more powerful than a fighter or ranger (also redone w/o spells), but he HAS to follow his Code of Conduct or in effect becomes a Fighter w/o any extra abilities or feats. This is the main reason who he has the extra power...he MUST follow his deities directions! To me that can be a big thorn in the side!

 

[CRGreathouse]

Role-playing restrictions should not be used to balance mechanics.

(Perhaps I'll use this for my .sig. )

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I'll concur with CRGreathouse on this. I look at it this way: if a player wants to play a paladin, they want the challenge of playing a character who abides by the paladin's code. In fact, they will create a character who would abide by that code. So, it's not really too much of a restriction.

It could be a pain if you as the DM decide to make it one--setting up impossible situations, forcing the paladin to give away all of his loot* to feed the orphans or having his deity boss him around at every opportunity. On the other hand, if you were this kind of a DM, the player most likely would simply not want to play a paladin (or a cleric). It wouldn't matter how powerful the class was if the DM used the restrictions to make it no fun to play.

So again, either the restrictions don't amount to more than a character description and the role-playing restrictions don't balance the mechanical advantages or the role-playing restrictions make the character no fun to play and it doesn't matter that they don't balance out the advantages (because no-one's playing one).

*Actually, a requirement that a character donate x% of his wealth to the poor/his order or pay dues of xyz gp monthly is a mechanical restriction rather than a role-playing one because it has a fixed and quantifiable effect on the character's equipment value which contributes to the character's power at levels above 1st.

 

[Broken Fang]

I don't think role-playing the Code as a restriction, just something that the Paladin's player need be aware of. No stealing from the church coffers w/o penalty.
I changed the special abilities to:
1 - Detect Evil, Smite Evil 11
2 - Lay on Hands, Divine Health 12 - Beacon of Hope
3 - Aura of Courage, Divine Grace 13
4 - Turn Undead 14
5 - Smite Evil x2 15 - Smite Evil x4
6 - Special Mount 16
7 17
8 - Call Blessings 18 - Righteous Shield
9 19
10 - Lay on Hand x1.5, Smite Evil x3 20 - LoH x2, Smite Evil x5

Call Blessing – A Paladin may use this ability a number of times per day equal to half their level (rounded down). Call Blessing allows a Paladin to call down favor from his deity and do any of the following: Bless, Bless Water, Bless Weapon, Cure Light Wounds, or Purify Food & Drink.
Beacon of Hope – A Paladin may use this ability a number of per day equal to his Charisma modifier. All allies within 50’ of the Paladin gain the following effects for one minute per level of the Paladin: immune to Fear and Fear-like effects, Magic Circle against Evil, Prayer, and automatic stabilization if reduced to negative Hit Points.
Righteous Shield – A Paladin may use this ability once per day. When using Righteous Shield the Paladin gains the following protection for one minute per level: Death Ward, Endure Elements (all), and Spell Resistance.

I reduced some of the new powers and added special mount like EB suggested.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I'd say this looks pretty good. Right now, I'd be hard pressed to choose between a standard PH paladin and this version in terms of power. So, I'd guess it'll turn out to be pretty balanced. Let me know how it works out in game. . . .

 

[novyet]

Broken Fang, what are the types on those abilities?
Extraordinary, Spell Like, or Supernatural?
The class seems pretty cool to me, for a non spellcasting paladin.

 

[Quickbeam]

We've all seen similar attempts with the Ranger class, but overall your non-casting Paladin (the second version) seems pretty cool and not at all overpowering. For my part, I'd miss the ability to Turn Undead and cast spells, but I can see a wide array of paladin fans and protagonists favoring your concept.