New Spell:Holy Bolt (New Version)(Edited)
- Thread starter Merlion
- Start date
If you compare your clr2 spell to sound burst (the cleric's first offensive 2nd level spell that I can recall) you will see that yours is way too powerful. A 3rd level caster casts sound burst and does 1d8 damage to a small radius. Your spell does 1d6+1 to 2 targets. Granted, sound burst doesnt have the narrow focus of "evil" or "undead", but given what most parties fight it is a silly restriction and just makes your spell more powerful (both allow for a save to be stunned).
Further, the only spells powered by good usually do extra damage to undead by using a higher die type. You specifically mention channeling positive energy, which reminds me of a "Cure" Spell.
I think your spell should lose the stun but gain a capacity as a healing spell (albeit weaker, but at range). Dont step on sound burst's feet as a stunning 2nd level spell, make your own style.
Holy Bolt
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 2, Good 2, Mys 1
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 + 5ft/2levels)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Half (harmless) (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
You channel positive energy into bolts which strike their targets unerringly. The bolt strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee or has anything less than total cover or concealment. Specific parts of a creature cannot be singled out. Inanimate objects (locks, etc) cannot be damaged by the spell.
These bolts cure 1d4 points of damage and for every two levels of experience past 1st, you gain an additional bolt. You have two at 3rd level, three at 5th level, four at 7th level, and the maximum of 5 bolts at 9th level or higher. If you shoot multiple bolts, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single bolt can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you for SR or roll damage.
Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds and roll d6 instead of d4. An undead creature can attempt a Will save to take half damage.
Comparison:
Cure Moderate Wounds (10th level caster): 2d8+10 = 12-28 pts
Holy Bolt (10th level caster): 5d4 = 5-20 pts, but can be cast at range.
Technik
Further, the only spells powered by good usually do extra damage to undead by using a higher die type. You specifically mention channeling positive energy, which reminds me of a "Cure" Spell.
I think your spell should lose the stun but gain a capacity as a healing spell (albeit weaker, but at range). Dont step on sound burst's feet as a stunning 2nd level spell, make your own style.
Holy Bolt
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 2, Good 2, Mys 1
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 + 5ft/2levels)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Half (harmless) (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
You channel positive energy into bolts which strike their targets unerringly. The bolt strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee or has anything less than total cover or concealment. Specific parts of a creature cannot be singled out. Inanimate objects (locks, etc) cannot be damaged by the spell.
These bolts cure 1d4 points of damage and for every two levels of experience past 1st, you gain an additional bolt. You have two at 3rd level, three at 5th level, four at 7th level, and the maximum of 5 bolts at 9th level or higher. If you shoot multiple bolts, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single bolt can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you for SR or roll damage.
Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds and roll d6 instead of d4. An undead creature can attempt a Will save to take half damage.
Comparison:
Cure Moderate Wounds (10th level caster): 2d8+10 = 12-28 pts
Holy Bolt (10th level caster): 5d4 = 5-20 pts, but can be cast at range.
Technik
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Merlion
First Post
I mention Holy energy, not positive energy. the whole point is to harm evil beings not just undead...I designed it as a 1st level offensive spell for my Mystic not a healing spell. I added the link to my mystic thread in hopes that people would go and give me feedback on that. And it isnt actualy ment to be a cleric spell...as I've mentioned several times its for my campaign in which their are no clerics and no Arcane/Divine magic divide. its for my Mystic class. I just threw the Cleric level in for normal campaigns and for in case I eventualy want to submit it somewhere.
Sound burst is absurdly weak. And compare Holy Bolt to Knife Spray from Defenders of the Faith and you'll see their pretty simliar.
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Sigh. Ok magic missle is an awesome spell. It is quite possibly the benchmark of the most power a 1st level wizard spell should have.
Your spell has the following advantages over magic missle:
Can be taken by the sorc, I mean mystic class which can also take healing spells and gets progression as fast as a wizard.
Does +1 damage per miss, I mean bolt to a maximum of 5 more damage at 10th level. 5 more damage than the most powerful first level wizard/sorc spell.
Has a chance to stun the target, which basically combines a weak color spray effect with the damage.
Your spell features the following "disadvantages":
Only affects evil or undead things.
Requires a ranged touch attack.
Ok, how are you not seeing the overpoweredness here? Are you comparing this spell to the ones in Tome and Blood? Because all of those are elemental and many creatures have elemental resistances (or immunities). They also have a 1d8 damage, meaning they can only do 1 damage sometimes (but otherwise is equal damage to your spell). They also suffer a Fort for half damage, and do not have an additional stunning effect. Conclusion: your spell may be very overpowered.
Oh, and for the record, here is the comparison to knife spray and soundburst:
Knife Spray: Cone, 1d6+5 damage, reflex half
Soundburt: 10 ft radius spread, 1d8 damage+stun, will partial (always does 1d8 damage).
The damages come out the same, as reflex is the easiest save to avoid, soundburst still has the stun. This is another sign that your spell is overpowered to the plane of negative energy and back.
Technik
Your spell has the following advantages over magic missle:
Can be taken by the sorc, I mean mystic class which can also take healing spells and gets progression as fast as a wizard.
Does +1 damage per miss, I mean bolt to a maximum of 5 more damage at 10th level. 5 more damage than the most powerful first level wizard/sorc spell.
Has a chance to stun the target, which basically combines a weak color spray effect with the damage.
Your spell features the following "disadvantages":
Only affects evil or undead things.
Requires a ranged touch attack.
Ok, how are you not seeing the overpoweredness here? Are you comparing this spell to the ones in Tome and Blood? Because all of those are elemental and many creatures have elemental resistances (or immunities). They also have a 1d8 damage, meaning they can only do 1 damage sometimes (but otherwise is equal damage to your spell). They also suffer a Fort for half damage, and do not have an additional stunning effect. Conclusion: your spell may be very overpowered.
Oh, and for the record, here is the comparison to knife spray and soundburst:
Knife Spray: Cone, 1d6+5 damage, reflex half
Soundburt: 10 ft radius spread, 1d8 damage+stun, will partial (always does 1d8 damage).
The damages come out the same, as reflex is the easiest save to avoid, soundburst still has the stun. This is another sign that your spell is overpowered to the plane of negative energy and back.
Technik
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Merlion
First Post
No, most definitly not. those spells are absurdly weak when you figure that they allow a save and require an attack roll and have pathetic range. Anyway moving on to my spell.
Yes, it would be overpowered as a 1st level spell for a normal DnD Cleric. As a 2nd level spell for a normal DnD Cleric its probably ok. At the high end. Cause you also forgot about Spiritual Weapon...probably actualy the best 2nd level offensive cleric spell. Requires an attack roll, but stays for a round per level..D8 damage, force effect. and since clerics are also warriors it essentialy temporarily gives them two attacks per round one of which bypasses damage reduction and can even strike incorporeal beings.
However all of this is in truth irrelevant to my spell because it was never designed to be a cleric spell or truly for regular DnD...although truthfuly it would probably work fine as such especialy if I remove the stun, which I think I will...that was just something someone suggested anyway. I might also make it 1 bolt/3 levels so 2 at 4th 3 at 6th etc etc perhaps....
Spiritual Weapon is a very good cleric spell. I didn't "forget" about it, it hasn't been mentioned. You were comparing sound burst to knife spray until I showed you that the 2 are actually quite balanced with regards to each other.
If you drop the stun on this spell it is still very good but probably will work for your class. Compare it to the Arcane Missle spell on wizards.com. That spell also does 1d6+1 and increases as Magic Missle, but it requires a reflex save for half damage (IIRC).
I really personally think reflex saves are the way to go. Ranged touch attacks are just too easy to make as spellcasters often have a high dexterity and monsters usually have a high natural armor which is negated. As with your other new attack spells, they seem so good that there really is no reason any mystic would not take them (unless it was from a banned sphere).
I've seen wizards and sorcs without magic missle (not many granted), but is that really the kind of spells you are trying to create?
I think its way too powerful for the dnd cleric in its current form, even without the stun.
Technik
If you drop the stun on this spell it is still very good but probably will work for your class. Compare it to the Arcane Missle spell on wizards.com. That spell also does 1d6+1 and increases as Magic Missle, but it requires a reflex save for half damage (IIRC).
I really personally think reflex saves are the way to go. Ranged touch attacks are just too easy to make as spellcasters often have a high dexterity and monsters usually have a high natural armor which is negated. As with your other new attack spells, they seem so good that there really is no reason any mystic would not take them (unless it was from a banned sphere).
I've seen wizards and sorcs without magic missle (not many granted), but is that really the kind of spells you are trying to create?
I think its way too powerful for the dnd cleric in its current form, even without the stun.
Technik
Merlion
First Post
Ok, totaly new version. I think I like this better. Although even tho reflex is standard for this kind of thing, I really think it should be Will. What do you guys think?
Holy Bolt
Evocation [Good]
Level: Clr 2, Good 1, Mys 1, Wiz/Sorc 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft +10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a bolt of holy energy that speeds from your hand to your targets. The bolt deals 1d8 points of damage, +1 per caster level (max +5). Only evil creatures and undead are damaged by this spell. A successful Reflex save halves the damage. You gain an additional bolt at 3rd level and one every three levels thereafter (max 5 bolts at 12th level).
Holy Bolt
Evocation [Good]
Level: Clr 2, Good 1, Mys 1, Wiz/Sorc 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft +10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a bolt of holy energy that speeds from your hand to your targets. The bolt deals 1d8 points of damage, +1 per caster level (max +5). Only evil creatures and undead are damaged by this spell. A successful Reflex save halves the damage. You gain an additional bolt at 3rd level and one every three levels thereafter (max 5 bolts at 12th level).
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Your spell maxes at 5d8+25 damage (avg 47.5 damage).
Magic Missle maxes at 5d4+5 (avg 17.5).
Thats roughly a 30 damage difference, even if it is saved for half, thats still 15 points more than a magic missle, although it only affects evil and undead.
This spell hoses undead, and (imo) is too powerful.
Try scaling the damage down to 1d6+1 per bolt with a reflex save.
The over-all problem with balancing your spells is that they are all designed to harm a large subset of what adventurers usually fight. It can't affect everything but it probably will affect everything an adventurer will fight for the most part (most d&d villains are evil).
Its like making a fireball that doesn't affect anything except undead but does more damage than a fireball and is lower level. It just doesn't work.
I showed you how I would make this spell, personally I think there are enough "magic-missle" spells as it is. Between the variants in T&B, the one on wizards.com, and a couple vairants I have seen on the web, its kindof tired (to me). Also, I don't like putting that much power in the cleric's hands (I realize its designed for the mystic), if the cleric wants to deal with undead or evil it has its own ways to go about it.
Look at the opposing spell:
Unholy Bolt
Evocation [Evil]
Level: Clr 2, Good 1, Mys 1, Wiz/Sorc 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft +10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a bolt of holy energy that speeds from your hand to your targets. The bolt deals 1d8 points of damage, +1 per caster level (max +5). Only good creatures and elves are damaged by this spell. A successful Reflex save halves the damage. You gain an additional bolt at 3rd level and one every three levels thereafter (max 5 bolts at 12th level).
I picked good creatures and elves since the second part is pretty optional, just pick anything off the ranger's favored enemy list and you are good to go. Needless to say, you would feel kinda bad killing first level adventurers with this spell, which does 1d8+1 damage at first level. BAM! Dead wizard.
Technik
Magic Missle maxes at 5d4+5 (avg 17.5).
Thats roughly a 30 damage difference, even if it is saved for half, thats still 15 points more than a magic missle, although it only affects evil and undead.
This spell hoses undead, and (imo) is too powerful.
Try scaling the damage down to 1d6+1 per bolt with a reflex save.
The over-all problem with balancing your spells is that they are all designed to harm a large subset of what adventurers usually fight. It can't affect everything but it probably will affect everything an adventurer will fight for the most part (most d&d villains are evil).
Its like making a fireball that doesn't affect anything except undead but does more damage than a fireball and is lower level. It just doesn't work.
I showed you how I would make this spell, personally I think there are enough "magic-missle" spells as it is. Between the variants in T&B, the one on wizards.com, and a couple vairants I have seen on the web, its kindof tired (to me). Also, I don't like putting that much power in the cleric's hands (I realize its designed for the mystic), if the cleric wants to deal with undead or evil it has its own ways to go about it.
Look at the opposing spell:
Unholy Bolt
Evocation [Evil]
Level: Clr 2, Good 1, Mys 1, Wiz/Sorc 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft +10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a bolt of holy energy that speeds from your hand to your targets. The bolt deals 1d8 points of damage, +1 per caster level (max +5). Only good creatures and elves are damaged by this spell. A successful Reflex save halves the damage. You gain an additional bolt at 3rd level and one every three levels thereafter (max 5 bolts at 12th level).
I picked good creatures and elves since the second part is pretty optional, just pick anything off the ranger's favored enemy list and you are good to go. Needless to say, you would feel kinda bad killing first level adventurers with this spell, which does 1d8+1 damage at first level. BAM! Dead wizard.
Technik
Merlion
First Post
The Cleric "hoses" undead in standard DnD just by virtue of the Turn Undead class ability which at some levels can enable them to wipe out large numbers of the things with a single action and without even expending a spell slot. The Cleric also already has a number of undead "hosing" spells. "Hosing" undead has been a part of DnD since the begining. They gain a host of powerful immunities and defenses...and most but the lowest have rather nasty non defensive powers as well...and in exchange they have certain vulnerabilites. Additionally this represent the fact of their unnatural nature....they arent supposed to exist and that makes them vulnerable to some things.
Actualy I think that would work quite well. Undead is indeed a small subset of the creatures one is likely to fight. The DMG even states that a spell that affects only a certain type of creature might well be placed a level lower than it otherwise would be. My revised Disruption blast is essentialy an anti undead fireball..does 1d6 per level etc...of course it affects evil extraplanar beings as well.
Addmitedly undead and evil beings together is a big chunk...although not everything. Their are a number of monsters...magical beasts, some abberations, most constructs etc that are nonsentient and therefor not affected.
However all this being said I think I shall take Holy Bolt down to 1d8+1 per bolt, no level variable on damage, and keep a save. Although personaly for flavour reasons I think it should be Will rather than reflex.
And remember I also reduced the bolt progression...you dont max out your bolts till 12th level...3 levels after Magic Missile.
Ohh, and for a Holy/Unholy spell just picking any old creature off the ranger favored enemy list doesnt really work. Why would a non-good elf be damaged by holy bolt? Outsiders have inherent alignment, and undead are almost universaly evil, and unnatural...thats why holy/unholy effects effect those types of beings.
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