D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[Charlaquin]

@Chaosmancer I would even be fine with the hide action granting the invisible condition if “you end your turn in a space that is not heavily obscured and without three quarters cover or total cover from an enemy” was listed as one of the things that ends the condition. In the absence of that, the rules do in fact enable you to remain invisible in plain sight for as long as you want.

 

[TiQuinn]

You are otherwise free to salsa dance to your heart’s content. If this is not the intended function of the rule, then the rule should not be written this way.

But now that they didn’t write it that way, we’re left with the mess, but I’m certainly not going to allow someone in game to simply hide and then walk past someone in the open thinking it’s the same as invisibility.

 

[Charlaquin]

But now that they didn’t write it that way, we’re left with the mess, but I’m certainly not going to allow someone in game to simply hide and then walk past someone in the open thinking it’s the same as invisibility.

Well neither am I, obviously. I’m still deeply frustrated that I’ll have to make it a day-1 a house rule though. It’s generally preferable for players to be able to count on the rules to work the way the rulebook says they do.

 

[FrogReaver]

well at least the stealth rules aren’t as scattered. Much easier to see the cluster they made of it this time. Sad to see the stealth rules actually get written worse in an objective kind of sense. I’m not even to the point where I’ve decided if I even like the static 15 initial hide check. Leaning toward no but the rest of this is kind of funny.

 

[FrogReaver]

Search in the glossary does not provide anything you can use to make an argument

View attachment 374972

Search action mentions a concealed creature. Invisible condition says nothing about being concealed. I assume natural language thing going on but still a little weird.

Nevermind, invisible condition does say you are concealed. So doesn’t that mean search action is only way to spot a creature that’s successfully taken the hide action?

 

[Charlaquin]

Search action mentions a concealed creature. Invisible condition says nothing about being concealed. I assume natural language thing going on but still a little weird.

Nevermind, invisible condition does say you are concealed. So doesn’t that mean search action is only way to spot a creature that’s successfully taken the hide action?

That would be consistent with the phrasing of the hide action, yeah.

 

[Maxperson]

Not really true, lots and lots of things in dnd are unspecified and just assumed. For example, the rules for underwater combat or lakes or bodies of water never specify that I get wet, and stay wet when I leave the water. But I doubt a single person here would try to argue that a character leaves the water and is completely dry.

That's not a rule, though. Wet or not wet is fluff. The designers have said repeatedly that the rules do exactly what they say they do and no more. That's how we ended up with Crawford's ruling that See Invisibility doesn't actually let you see the person clearly, so the disadvantage due to being invisible stays with the See Invisibility caster.

 

[Maxperson]

Not sure I want to rip this can of worms further open, but what the heck.

It's worth taking another look at the Invisible condition:

Note that the only thing Invisible gives you unconditionally is advantage on Initiative checks. The other two benefits only occur unless "the creature can somehow see you".

If you walk up to a guard in plain sight, you may be gaining the benefit of a condition called "invisible", but the guard can definitely somehow see you.

That's not what it says. It says "If you can somehow see invisible things..." The guard cannot see anything that is invisible unless he has something like the See Invisibility spell, True Seeing or some other way to see invisible things. Absent that, the second two effects happen. Or put another way, if that guard can see the invisible hider, he can also see the invisible wizard who cast invisibility.

 

[Maxperson]

Ah ha! More rules that shed some (?) light on this murky topic.

Hiding
Adventures and monsters often hide, whether to spy on one another, sneak past a guardian, or set an ambush. The Dungeon Master decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding. When you try to hide, you, take the hide action.

That would seem to indicate that you remain invisible when out in the open and sneaking past a guard(ian). If the guard automatically saw you when you reached line of sight with him, you couldn't ever sneak past.

 

[Maxperson]

You’re not invisible, you have the Invisible condition.

Why couldn’t they have just had a Hidden condition?

Invisible = the invisible condition. The condition is what you look up to see what invisible means.