D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[Stalker0]

Ultimately the problem isn't really the stealth rules, its the "finding rules".

aka the clause that you remain in stealth "until the enemy finds you".

Ok so what does that mean? Does that mean that if there is no cover or concealment? Does it mean if your stealth wasn't as high as their passive perception? (because if we are using that rule that why even have the DC 15 in the first place....just make everyone passive perception a minimum of 15). Does see invisibility automatically break stealth?

This is the part that is super confusing. The only thing we know for certain is.... "a person that uses the search action and beats your stealth DC can see you". But of course when can a creature use the search check? Does it need a reason for can it be all the time?

for example a DM has a guard that is "highly alert". Would it be making search checks constantly?

 

[Charlaquin]

This part is incorrect. First if you're in line of sight, you lose invisibility.

This is not stated in the text cited by Treantmonk.

Second, there is still passive perception. I posted it. Here it is again:

Passive perception
Passive perception is a score that reflects a creature's general awareness of its surroundings. The DM uses this score when determining whether a creature notices something without consciously making a wisdom perception check.

A creature's passive perception equals 10 plus the creature's wisdom perception check bonus. If the creature has advantage on such checks, increase the score by five. If the creature has disadvantage on them, decrease the score by five. For example, a level 1 character with a wisdom of 15 and proficiency in perception has a passive perception of 14 (10 + 2 + 2). If that character has advantage on wisdom perception checks, the score becomes 19.

No, that's passive perception.

So, you’re saying that in contrast to Treantmonk’s statement that finding you with a Wisdom (Perception) check requires a Search action, it can be done with passive perception? I can see that interpretation, but if that’s the intent I think the rule is very poorly worded, as the initial DC 15 is only relevant if no hostile creature in the vicinity has a passive perception higher than 15, and a lot of people aren’t going to make the connection that simply having a higher passive perception than the rogue’s stealth check does count as finding them with a successful Wisdom (Perception) check.

 

[Mistwell]

No, your only have to meet those criteria to ENTER the invisible condition. You remain as such until you do one of the listed actions which breaks it: Making a sound, being found by an enemy (by them taking the Search action),

You don't need to take the Search action, the red text is Treantmonk's words not the text. The game still has passive perception.

making an attack roll, or casting a spell with a verbal component. There is nothing in the rules text indicating that breaking the criteria required to enter stealth ALSO removes you from stealth.

You can, as this is written, enter cover, Hide, then walk out of cover to approach someone.

 

[mellored]

View attachment 374877
WHILE you're meeting those situations.
If you are no longer in those situations the while is no longer valid.

You need to succeed on a DC 15 check while you meet those conditions.

Then you are not affected by any effect that requires the target to be seen.

Nothing says you need to maintain those conditions to stay invisible (though that could certainly be the intention).

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Ultimately the problem isn't really the stealth rules, its the "finding rules".

aka the clause that you remain in stealth "until the enemy finds you".

Ok so what does that mean? Does that mean that if there is no cover or concealment? Does it mean if your stealth wasn't as high as their passive perception? (because if we are using that rule that why even have the DC 15 in the first place....just make everyone passive perception a minimum of 15). Does see invisibility automatically break stealth?

This is the part that is super confusing. The only thing we know for certain is.... "a person that uses the search action and beats your stealth DC can see you". But of course when can a creature use the search check? Does it need a reason for can it be all the time?

for example a DM has a guard that is "highly alert". Would it be making search checks constantly?

It defines that in the previous line. An enemy "Finds You" when it takes the search action and its check exceeds your stealth roll. Or, as has been pointed out, if they have a passive perception greater than your stealth roll.

 

[Charlaquin]

This position requires redefining the word "while"

Definition of WHILE

a period of time especially when short and marked by the occurrence of an action or a condition : time; the time and effort used (as in the performance of an action) : trouble… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

The occurrence of the condition is no longer true if you choose to end that occurrence, say by walking directly towards someone who can clearly see you

The “while” here refers to the conditions you must be under while making the check, not in order to remain hidden once the check has been made and succeeded.

 

[Mistwell]

Ultimately the problem isn't really the stealth rules, its the "finding rules".

aka the clause that you remain in stealth "until the enemy finds you".

Ok so what does that mean? Does that mean that if there is no cover or concealment?

Well, if you're lightly obscured something has disadvantage to perceive you, so -5 on passive perception or disadvantage on rolling against your stealth check with a Search action. If you are heavily obscured you have the blinded condition with regard to perception. So, so far from what we know, it does seem like even if you walk out in the open they need to beat your stealth DC to find you, either with passive perception or an active Search check?

I still am unsure.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

as the initial DC 15 is only relevant if no hostile creature in the vicinity has a passive perception higher than 15

I think thats the goal: You have to roll at least a 15, even if the monster you're hiding from has a super low Passive perception (like say, 8). Its to set a Floor.

 

[MarkB]

Or, as has been pointed out, if they have a passive perception greater than your stealth roll.

Which isn't likely, since the absolute floor of the DC is 15.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Anyways the real takeaway here is that WOTC has completely failed to create rules text for stealth that are easily understood and consistently interpreted the same way, despite having a decade to do so.