D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[Maxperson]

The thread is about stealth and says you need to have cover of concealment to hide and gain the invisible condition. You lose the condition if you no longer meet the conditions to hide. I would just say that the spell grants you the full cover condition.

Honestly, it is things like this that mean we will stick with 2014.

I mean, that's reasonable and I think we are all going to play it that way, but that isn't what the rules say. At least the rules that we have seen that deal with it.

 

[Thommy H-H]

What the heck?

'It's up to the DM, because invisible means something specific'?

If invisible means something specific then how it works is not up to the DM.

It has a specific RAW effect. The Invisible condition in the 2024 rules, I mean. It does four things, two of which affect attacks, one of which affects targetting with spells and other effects, one of which affects Initiative rolls. Those things don't necessarily come up in play while exploring a dungeon in abstract time, so if a player is asking to Hide, I have to interpret what it is they want out of the action. What are they trying to achieve? What do they want to take the Hide action for? If it's just "to become invisible", then I may have to explain that the Invisible condition, which Hide grants, may not achieve what they're imagining it does.

Because, again, and I must have said this eighteen million times in this thread now, the Invisible condition is not necessarily being completely invisible in the sense of putting on the One Ring. It's just an in-game effect, with quite limited rules. So, in fact, if everyone Hides and becomes Invisible, the monsters might not just ignore them, depending on the situation. I might decide we roll Initiative and the monsters Search for a bit and try to spot the party, if I think it would be worthwhile. Or I might just nod it through, since they made the effort to conceal themselves while exploring (but, again, I'd have to determine how possible that is based on their actions).

 

[mamba]

I mean technically the invisible condition doesn't in any point says that people actually cannot see you. It just says its effects don't work, if people see you. So by RAW the only thing it does is give you advantage to initiative...

yes, the invisibility is more implicit, that is basically the problem with all of this. I doubt you think that what you describe is what the invisibility spell is supposed to grant

 

[Pauln6]

doesn’t change that it is about what the rules say, not about how you personally intend to violate them

Heh, it's only a rules violation if a player does it. I only intend to house-rule them (which is still rules lawful when a DM does it) if I don't understand what it is the changes were intended to improve. I understood the distinction between being hidden and unseen vs being invisible in 5e.

We've just started playing Level Up to see if we enjoy a few more tactical options.. This description seems logical to me and chimes with my understanding of how it should work in game terms and reality.

"To attempt to hide from a creature, you must be unseen (behind something, obscured, invisible, or otherwise out of sight) and unheard by that creature, as well as undetected by any other special senses that it might possess. Make a Stealth check. This check’s total is used until you stop hiding or are discovered. If a creature sees you while you are hiding or makes a successful Perception check to locate you, or you make a noise that it can overhear, you are discovered and are no longer hidden from that creature."

What problem buried in here is the new system intended to cover?

 

[MarkB]

I thought everyone knew that when PCs move loud Beethoven music sounds from their space to indicate their awesomeness.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I imagine if asked that way he would give a decent ruling about how hide works, that would make invisibility not work (since he wouldn't be thinking about invisibility spell when answering the question).

That would be an improvement on the current mess, then give him a whiskey or other spirit of choice and ask him to do it again with invisibility

 

[FrogReaver]

Maybe the stealth and invisibility rules were AI written

Just speculating.

 

[FrogReaver]

Stop making up fancy sounding words like diegetic.

 

[Charlaquin]

Doesn't it work similarly in most crpg's? Like how does it work in BG3?

Similarly, but BG3 gives enemies a visible “detection radius” in the UI, represented as like a red zone on the ground, and if you enter an enemy’s detection radius the game continually rolls stealth checks against its passive perception until you leave the radius. If you fail a check you’re spotted. And BG3 treats natural 1s as automatic failures, so even if your stealth bonus is 20 points above their passive perception, you will eventually fail, it’s just a question of if you can reach them to make an attack before that happens. Also, I think it only checks once per round in combat. But neither you nor the enemy needs to use an action to make a check, it all happens automatically.

Also, in most of those CRPG's enemies do have a cone of vision or radius where they begin to notice you even if in stealth mode.

That’s why I used Skyrim as my example, as Skyrim enemies don’t seem to have a cone of vision. Or if they do, it must only take a very slightly higher stealth skill to not be spotted while you’re in it than while you’re out of it.

 

[Pauln6]

Unless you did a PROPER EQUIPMENT CHECK before heading to work troop!

Pack your gear with socks to reduce clatter! Tape all those straps together! Jump up and down in place and have your buddy do a buddy check...SHEESH.

/cough ahem

sorry flashbacks...

I'm not packing my chewing gum with socks. Seriously, I have expertise in stealth as it is. I scare everyone but just popping up when they don't hear me coming. Luckily for them my attack rolls are terrible.