Night Hag-- Save or die?

[Black Knight Irios]

The way I see it, even powers that do not allow a save under certain conditions cans till be saved against - someone just has to give you a save. There are many powers that do this, as does a DC 15 Heal check.

This solves many of these issues.

You can save against powers that a save can end and if you get an extra save from any source you might get rid of the effect sooner.

But if a power does not say that 'save ends' its effects, even if you get a save it will do nothing if you succeed.

But if you mean there are effects that you can save against only if someone grants you a save, then there are some ways to get a save from an outside source (ally/etc.). And you are right.


PHB P 278
Durations
There are given conditional durations none is permanent.
Even the pre-update version does not spell out permanent which would lead to an exception to the rules. It is described as (no save). (no save) is not a duration. It just states that you can't remove the effect with a save. So the default longest duration that is given in the PHB is until the end of the encounter.
So arguing that it was meant to be permanent is not backed up by anything except some wishful thinking of some DMs.

 

[Asmor]

The way I see it, even powers that do not allow a save under certain conditions cans till be saved against - someone just has to give you a save. There are many powers that do this, as does a DC 15 Heal check.

This solves many of these issues.

While that's certainly fine for a house rule, it is not supported at all by the RAW.

 

[Nytmare]

There are given conditional durations none is permanent.
Even the pre-update version does not spell out permanent which would lead to an exception to the rules. It is described as (no save). (no save) is not a duration. It just states that you can't remove the effect with a save. So the default longest duration that is given in the PHB is until the end of the encounter.
So arguing that it was meant to be permanent is not backed up by anything except some wishful thinking of some DMs.

Let us list the (no save) effects that end at the end of combat according to your interpretation of the rules.

You become unpetrified from a basilisk's gaze, the beholder's ray, the gorgon's breath, and a medusa's gaze.

Mindflayers' thralls stop being enthralled. I guess this would also fix the back alley trepanation as well.

Crocodiles and purple worms immediately stop eating you when the fight is done and barf you back up.

I think your interpretation might be wrong.

In addition I'd point out that the efreet's curse specifically states that although it is a (no save) effect, it only lasts till the end of the encounter and that becoming a vampire leaves you weak for 1d10 days (no save).

 

[deleteme123456]

Let us list the (no save) effects that end at the end of combat according to your interpretation of the rules.

You become unpetrified from a basilisk's gaze, the beholder's ray, the gorgon's breath, and a medusa's gaze.

Mindflayers' thralls stop being enthralled. I guess this would also fix the back alley trepanation as well.

Crocodiles and purple worms immediately stop eating you when the fight is done and barf you back up.

I think your interpretation might be wrong.

In addition I'd point out that the efreet's curse specifically states that although it is a (no save) effect, it only lasts till the end of the encounter and that becoming a vampire leaves you weak for 1d10 days (no save).

Well, I'm pretty sure that either you or the croc/worm has to be dead for the encounter to really be over, so there is some merit there. That is to say, as long as they're still eating you, even if your allies run away, you're suffering a condition that is slowly (or not-so-slowly) killing you (unless you somehow have DR 10/20/40), so the encounter can't really end. The rest of those all make sense to be permanent / until removed with ritual (or in some cases, if the source creature dies).

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Let us list the (no save) effects that end at the end of combat according to your interpretation of the rules.

You become unpetrified from a basilisk's gaze, the beholder's ray, the gorgon's breath, and a medusa's gaze.

Mindflayers' thralls stop being enthralled. I guess this would also fix the back alley trepanation as well.

Crocodiles and purple worms immediately stop eating you when the fight is done and barf you back up.

I think your interpretation might be wrong.

In addition I'd point out that the efreet's curse specifically states that although it is a (no save) effect, it only lasts till the end of the encounter and that becoming a vampire leaves you weak for 1d10 days (no save).

Now we are talking - nicely done, sir!

My guess is they changed it because the first failed save would take you out of combat in case of the hag whereas the other creatures require at least two failed saves and/ or even other conditions that must be met.
A reasonable fix wether it was a typo or s.th. else.

 

[Tuft]

The rest of those all make sense to be permanent / until removed with ritual (or in some cases, if the source creature dies).

I think you have to point out the ritual "Remove Affliction" more clearly than just mentioning it a few times in passing, Infocynic...

PH p. 311: "Remove Affliction wipes away a single enduring effect afflicting the subject."

Finding other ways to do the same clearly takes away that ritual's job...