Nitpicking the Sorcerer Bloodlines

[pawsplay]

Ok, as previously discussed, it's not clear what an Aberrant Sorcerer's touch reach looks like, but it might be a tentacle, or a temporary physical change. And it's weird.

Celestial and Abyssal arcana add aligned DR... this creates an issue when you summon a creature with DR whose alignment is opposed to yours. For instance, an abyssal sorcerer might summon an angelic creature, which would then have both DR/good and DR/evil. Probably should be errata'd.

Elemental bloodline... does receiving the modified hands and ray spells mean you can never learn the normal versions?

Another elemental nitpick... At 20th level, they become, like elementals, immune to crits. This is a rare ability in PF, and since such a character would more physically resemble an outsider, it seems like it might be somewhat inconsistent, especially when the bloodline text says you might be a affected by elemental forces or the descendent of an elemental outsider.

 

[Starbuck_II]

They probably wanted to leave it up to the PC to decide for Long Limbs.

Celestial and Abyssal arcana add aligned DR... this creates an issue when you summon a creature with DR whose alignment is opposed to yours. For instance, an abyssal sorcerer might summon an angelic creature, which would then have both DR/good and DR/evil. Probably should be errata'd.

That is a feature not a bug. Because you can have a evil creature with DR/Evil (by magic spells or magic items).
Sure, those who summon oppose creatures are stronger maybe than summon own alignment, but not a bug.

Elemental bloodline... does receiving the modified hands and ray spells mean you can never learn the normal versions?

What modified hands?
Elemental doesn't have hand ability.
Bloodline of Elemental lets you changes damage type though (you could have a cold Scorching Ray)

 

[hunter1828]

Ok, as previously discussed, it's not clear what an Aberrant Sorcerer's touch reach looks like, but it might be a tentacle, or a temporary physical change. And it's weird.

It's the Aberrant bloodline. I think it's supposed to be weird.

As for what it looks like, I believe that's entirely up to the PC and the GM. There are a number of aberrant creatures it could resemble.

Celestial and Abyssal arcana add aligned DR... this creates an issue when you summon a creature with DR whose alignment is opposed to yours. For instance, an abyssal sorcerer might summon an angelic creature, which would then have both DR/good and DR/evil. Probably should be errata'd.

Not necessarily. The Bloodline Arcana description states that the new DR does not stack with any DR the creature might have. I would rule that since they don't stack, the new DR is the one that applies, not the one the creature normally has.

Elemental bloodline... does receiving the modified hands and ray spells mean you can never learn the normal versions?

What modified hands? I'm not seeing that in the bloodline description at all.

Another elemental nitpick... At 20th level, they become, like elementals, immune to crits. This is a rare ability in PF, and since such a character would more physically resemble an outsider, it seems like it might be somewhat inconsistent, especially when the bloodline text says you might be a affected by elemental forces or the descendent of an elemental outsider.

The description states the "elemental power surges through your body". I don't take that to mean they physically resemble an elemental at all. I just take it to mean their body is filled with elemental power. Maybe their eyes turn color, or the hair looks like flames, but I think that's a flavor thing left to the player.

 

[BryonD]

What modified hands? I'm not seeing that in the bloodline description at all.

It is in their bonus spell list. They get burning hands as a bonus spell at 3rd level, but the damage is based on their element type.

I don't see anything at all that suggests that an air sorcerer could not take burning hands in additional to having their "lightning" hands bonus spell.

 

[hunter1828]

It is in their bonus spell list. They get burning hands as a bonus spell at 3rd level, but the damage is based on their element type.

Ah, I get it. pawsplay meant "modified [burning] hands and ray spells".

The answer to:

does receiving the modified hands and ray spells mean you can never learn the normal versions?

would be "No, it doesn't." The description for the Bloodline Arcana for the Elemental bloodline states "Whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to match the type of your bloodline" (emphasis mine). The operative word in that description is "can". It means you can if you so choose. It doesn't mean you absolutely must change it to the type of your bloodline. At least, that's how I as a GM and a player would interpret it.

 

[BryonD]

The description for the Bloodline Arcana for the Elemental bloodline states "Whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to match the type of your bloodline" (emphasis mine). The operative word in that description is "can". It means you can if you so choose. It doesn't mean you absolutely must change it to the type of your bloodline. At least, that's how I as a GM and a player would interpret it.

I agree with your interpretation.

However, I don't think that is what he meant.

*In addition* to the bloodline arcana ability, every elemental sorcerer of L3 or higher will have burning hands on their spell list as a bonus spell except this spell DOES always produce damage of their element type. (Bonus spells, next line directly under "class skill: Knowledge (planes)".

So, an air sorcerer would have lighting hands that could not produce fire.
However, if he desired this some sorcerer could ALSO know burning hands. (And he could redundantly use his bloodline arcana to cast burning hands in a manner that exactly replicates his lightning hands. )

 

[arscott]

Not necessarily. The Bloodline Arcana description states that the new DR does not stack with any DR the creature might have. I would rule that since they don't stack, the new DR is the one that applies, not the one the creature normally has.

Presumably it follows the standard 3.5 rule--Only the most favorable DR applies.

In this case, the creature essentially has DR/Good and Evil--pretty hard, but not impossible to ignore. The usual solution for those who aren't type-evil outsiders with good-aligned weapons is to just power attack or sneak attack.

 

[Alzrius]

In this case, the creature essentially has DR/Good and Evil--pretty hard, but not impossible to ignore. The usual solution for those who aren't type-evil outsiders with good-aligned weapons is to just power attack or sneak attack.

Or just use +5 weapons.

 

[hunter1828]

I agree with your interpretation.

However, I don't think that is what he meant.

*In addition* to the bloodline arcana ability, every elemental sorcerer of L3 or higher will have burning hands on their spell list as a bonus spell except this spell DOES always produce damage of their element type. (Bonus spells, next line directly under "class skill: Knowledge (planes)".

So, an air sorcerer would have lighting hands that could not produce fire.
However, if he desired this some sorcerer could ALSO know burning hands. (And he could redundantly use his bloodline arcana to cast burning hands in a manner that exactly replicates his lightning hands. )

To quote Philip J. Fry, "Now I get it!"

And I agree with your assessment. That's how I would rule it as well.

 

[pawsplay]

They probably wanted to leave it up to the PC to decide for Long Limbs.


That is a feature not a bug. Because you can have a evil creature with DR/Evil (by magic spells or magic items).
Sure, those who summon oppose creatures are stronger maybe than summon own alignment, but not a bug.

I think turning abyssal sorcerers into angel summoners and celestial sorcerers into demon sorcerers has to be considered a bug.

Not necessarily. The Bloodline Arcana description states that the new DR does not stack with any DR the creature might have. I would rule that since they don't stack, the new DR is the one that applies, not the one the creature normally has.

That's a perfectly good house rule, but that's not what doesn't stack means. It means they overlap. See page 562 of the PF rulebook.

The description states the "elemental power surges through your body". I don't take that to mean they physically resemble an elemental at all. I just take it to mean their body is filled with elemental power. Maybe their eyes turn color, or the hair looks like flames, but I think that's a flavor thing left to the player.

Yes, of course. So what happened to their vital spots?