No dailies, but also no healing surges? Would D&D be a better game this way?

[the Jester]

Personally, my solution to the problem is even simpler. I just change the word 'Daily' to 'Adventure'.... ....It's only when the party makes the decision to pull themselves away from the adventure they are on that they can take an "extended rest". And at that point, depending on where in the adventure they are at... it will determine what (if any) consequences they get for "resting" when they did.

This is a good way to deal with the issue at hand. So is declaring that you cannot take an extended rest without a certain level of comfort; if you're trudging through the wilderness, with snow and rain and wind and terrible conditions, you might not be able to get an extended rest at all. (My last regular session, the party was trying to find something in a swamp and could only get an x-rest every 3 days or at certain landmarks, for instance.)

 

[TerraDave]

Going back various editions, I have always liked the PCs to have "reserves" they can tap into when needed. Some fights are less important and you want less stuff in play, other fighters are bigger and you want more. Potions, scrolls, and charged items used to play this role (and I guess still could).

The old solution for Gorts problem is to create some uncertainity around the next encounter. AKA wandering monsters. Maybe the pcs travel for days in the wilderness unmolested, but then they have three enounters in a row. There might even be a good reason for this, seen in hind sight. In any case, hitting them a few times when they have tapped themselves out should be enough.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

healing surges was the most brilliant idea in 4e... why remove it?

 

[DEFCON 1]

This is a good way to deal with the issue at hand. So is declaring that you cannot take an extended rest without a certain level of comfort; if you're trudging through the wilderness, with snow and rain and wind and terrible conditions, you might not be able to get an extended rest at all. (My last regular session, the party was trying to find something in a swamp and could only get an x-rest every 3 days or at certain landmarks, for instance.)

Yeah, something along these lines, but I work it from a much more metagamed perspective than that. I just don't tie extended rests to any specific in-game events (like it's "too difficult" to sleep in the swamp), but rather just that I tell them "Your current adventure is hiking into the mountains to go kill the dragon. We are now in 'Daily' mode... where all these encounters in this adventure to kill the dragon are considered to be a single 'day' for rules purposes. As in the rules, you are allowed to take one extended rest in any 24 hour period... so consider this adventure to be that 24-hour period. You'll get one extended rest during this adventure until you either finish, or you give up and run away."

This way they know how they'll need to manage their resources over the course of the adventure, and I can now describe the events of the hike and the delve into the dragons lair to occur over whatever length of time makes the most storyline sense... without worrying about "Ah ha! Sun rose! I get all my stuff back!"

 

[BobTheNob]

Unfortunately, I absolutely love healing surges. I think they were absolutely the most inspired idea of the game. Our group, in previous game to 4e (including non-d&d) tended to be "psycotic" in there approach to combat. There was no need to reserve, or even think, as recovery was assured. When recovery ISNT assured (as HS does) it makes them think it out a bit more, play the game rather than just resolve every situation by "wading on in". With HS we have quanitifiable limits.

In fact, we now have extended rest points built into the game and the players dont know where the next one will be. Whadaya know, they dont try to resolve every situation by killing everything in sight.

As for dailies, its kinda cool that you have an "Ace in the Hand", something you can pull out when the going gets tough.

Sorry, absolutely love HS and Dailies, they force the players to play.

(p.s. If you are going to dump HS from your game, take my advice, BAN the Blood Mage Paragon. The ONLY thing stopping our parties blood mage from devestating everything in his path is a sense of limitation of his available hit points)

 

[Stormonu]

Perhaps change daily to Recharge X; X could be a certain expenditure of healing surges, action points, a die roll or higher between encounters or any such system (or a combination).

 

[ourchair]

Perhaps change daily to Recharge X; X could be a certain expenditure of healing surges, action points, a die roll or higher between encounters or any such system (or a combination).

I say this without much analysis, but I like the idea of linking the big resources to a die roll, if only because it introduces an element of uncertainty to those big guns. Meaning, they can't guarantee that they'll get that resource back. 'Course the big question is when to limit or allow that die roll recharge.

The BIG downside I can see is that it can really mess up things if a player gets 'lucky' and gets away with dailying all day and it can make the other players feel really gimped if their characters can't daily as much as the ret of the gang.

 

[babinro]

I personally use the daily's return after every 4 encounters (for longer missions) or after the conclusion of an adventure as listed previously. I inform the party before hand so they'll have an idea and hopefully, not just nova on the last encounter as a result.

Having said that, linking the recharge of Daily powers to the expenditure of healing surges is a fantastic idea. I don't know what the balanced system would be, but it seems to just make sense as daily powers go a long way towards fatiguing the hero.

Without any sense of balance tied to it, you could obtain the use of a daily power during a short rest by expending 1 healing surge for a heroic tier daily attack power, 2 healing surges for a paragon tier daily attack power and 3 healing surges for an epic tier daily attack power.

 

[ourchair]

I personally use the daily's return after every 4 encounters (for longer missions) or after the conclusion of an adventure as listed previously. I inform the party before hand so they'll have an idea and hopefully, not just nova on the last encounter as a result.

Having said that, linking the recharge of Daily powers to the expenditure of healing surges is a fantastic idea. I don't know what the balanced system would be, but it seems to just make sense as daily powers go a long way towards fatiguing the hero.

Surges for powers is something I've toyed with before, mostly because I'd seen other people mention it online, but my biggest problem is that I haven't figured out what the right balance would be, especially when certain classes have more surges than others.

 

[Grazzt]

Oh HELL no.

I mean, it's fine for some groups I suppose... but for me? HELL no.

The resource management part of D&D is one that I like. Do you have enough arrows? Do you have enough food to make your trek across 200 miles to the Tower of Doom and back? How are you carrying all that? Do you have a donkeyhorse loadbearer? You're going into a desert- do you have water?

Likewise, before you go through that next door or down those stairs to the next level of the dungeon, consider: do you have enough supplies? How are your hit points or surges (depending on edition)? Are you out of spells/dailies (depending on edition)?

I don't have anything against anyone playing in a way that's fun to them, of course- if you think it enhances the game to gloss over this stuff, that's perfectly valid. It isn't badwrongfun; just not MY style.

What Jester said, with emphasis on the "HELL no" part (at least for me + my players).