D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[kolya]

Sub-races in 5.0E always seemed like a solution created for the "too many types of elves" problem. And then once they'd created a tool they felt they needed to use it in more than one case.
The dwarf sub-races didn't seem like they had much lore justification, they were just different because we were doing sub-races; and my perception of the halfling sub-races was that lightfoot had a trait that was copying from the elves' homework, and the stout had a trait that was copying from the dwarves' homework. Gnomes did seem like there was enough lore justification, but I also hated that the tinker rock gnome was defined by a profession.
They tried to make the concept work for the PHB races, and it already seemed like they were coming up against the limits of the system.

 

[Charlaquin]

honestly while them being 'the original stealthy rogue archetype species' is great and all it's also an archetype that's gotten applied to pretty much all of the small species as time has gone on, i would absolutely love if halflings could lean a little more into some druidic leanings, or perhaps them being adept merchants or something, just anything to give them that extra bit of defining flavour, sure halflings were one of the earliest fantasy species but as more and more species come along just being 'the small, kind of sneaky ones' isn't enough to make them stand out from the crowd anymore.

Not standing out from a crowd is kind of their shtick. If they were more fantastical, they wouldn’t feel like halflings any more.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

i would absolutely love if halflings could lean a little more into some druidic leanings

In case you didn't know, there's a subrace for this in Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, the lotusden halflings.

 

[Remathilis]

WotC screwed the pooch on lineage and species.

For example: the elf species has three lineages in the PHB (high, wood, drow) that the only difference between them is the spell choices for their bonus spells, but then there are four elf "species" that have their own unique traits and abilities (astral, eladrin, sea, shadar-kai). So a drow elf is a lineage of the base elf but the shadar-kai are a separate species of elf that have unique abilities.

Ok.

The same is true of gnome (forest and rock are lineages, but deep gnomes are separate species) and dwarf (hill and mountain are now cosmetic changes like high/gray elves, but the duergar are a separate species again.)

Tieflings get three new lineages, but aasimar got their subs stacked into "celestial revelation".

Ok.

And don't get me started on how lineage was already a term used to describe the dhampir, hexblood , and reborn from Van Richten, which have nothing to do with its use in 2024.

The thing they should have done was make high elf, wood elf, and drow elf (and forest and rock gnomes) separate species stats like their Monsters of the Multiverse counterparts and then treated the Goliath giant type and tiefling fiend origin again to shifter and aasimar. And then leave lineage for species you can be born or turn into. But WotC made the idea to keep subraces but not call them subraces so we have this Frankensteined system where sometimes an elf type is a lineage and sometimes an elf type is a species and a gnome who becomes a reborn changes lineages but that's not doesn't mean what you think it means.

Bah.

I still hold out some hope that that fixed how species are going to be handled between UA and the PHB, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

The same is true of gnome (forest and rock are lineages, but deep gnomes are separate species)

Oh, I expect that the Deep Gnome will get reprinted in some form at least a couple more times. It's a 5e tradition!

 

[Umbran]

I agree, but they have/had time to come out with something better if they wanted.

There's still the question of opportunity cost - is that better thing still worth the column inches, as compared to other things they may want to include?

There is no real value in doing multiple lineages just because there always have been.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There's still the question of opportunity cost - is that better thing still worth the column inches, as compared to other things they may want to include?

There is no real value in doing multiple lineages just because there always have been.

Do we know of anything they've included? Anything new other than the weapon mastery thing?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Do we know of anything they've included? Anything new other than the weapon mastery thing?

They added the Goliath to the PHB and were originally planning on adding the Ardling. They’ve also added new tiefling subraces. And a lot more subclasses. Some new backgrounds. I wouldn’t be surprised if they added some new spells. And, as you said, weapon masteries.

So, yes, quite a lot of things.

 

[CreamCloud0]

In case you didn't know, there's a subrace for this in Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, the lotusden halflings.

oh i'm well aware, it's what hooked me onto the idea in the first place way back when.

Not standing out from a crowd is kind of their shtick. If they were more fantastical, they wouldn’t feel like halflings any more.

sure, but there's not standing out from the crowd and then there's being trampled underfoot of it, plus the 'doesn't stand out' thing is meant to be an in-universe trait, it's not a excuse for you to to only ever give them the most boring generic abilities possible, you can give them interesting abilities without making them wildly fantastical, like, because it was just mentioned, the Lotusden's Timberwalk: disadvantage to ability checks to track you and ignore nonmagic difficult terrian made of plants and overgrowth, that's interesting, it's flavourful, it says something about them without being this glaring magic thing they can do (even if you hypothetically upgraded it to actually include magical-plants based difficult terrain).

you can give them stronger flavour without just making them 'fantastical' and if (and i'm not implying this is your perspective but just the general 'you') your idea of the halflings is that they are The 'boring' species and thus must remain boring then you've got a pretty terrible opinion of what makes a halfling then in my opinion.

 

[Mind of tempest]

They added the Goliath to the PHB and were originally planning on adding the Ardling. They’ve also added new tiefling subraces. And a lot more subclasses. Some new backgrounds. I wouldn’t be surprised if they added some new spells. And, as you said, weapon masteries.

So, yes, quite a lot of things.

how are they selling people on the goliath past the be big and strong?

are we getting the ardlings?