No more constitution mod to hp/level

[kolpo]

In the rogue article are hit points listened as: "Hit Points per Level Gained: 5". Your constitution modifier is no longer added to it. This could also explain why the rogue is given more hp/level then the average of 1d6.

Only at first level does constitution influence hp: "Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score"

But when your level rises shall this bonus become less and less important (think old toughness). Even if your constitution score raises at some levels do I doubt that it shall remain significant, even if you raise your constitution by 1 every 4 levels shall it still only give you 7 extra hp which is not a lot at level 30.

It seems like constitution shall now be a more balanced stat, rather then the uber stat it often was before.

 

[Sir Brennen]

But when your level rises shall this bonus become less and less important (think old toughness). Even if your constitution score raises at some levels do I doubt that it shall remain significant, even if you raise your constitution by 1 every 4 levels shall it still only give you 7 extra hp which is not a lot at level 30.

I think we can safely bet that it will still influence Fortitude, but yes, if the bonus per level were kept in, you'd see some huge differences between the hit points of some characters, especially over 30 levels. In the 3.5 game I'm in now, my "squishy" dragonfire adept has almost twice the hit points of one of the party's fighter types at 11th level, mainly due to my Con score. (He has sixty-some total... I have +66 just from my bonus)

 

[Zelc]

This is fantastic. Now people can actually dump Con without totally screwing over their survivability.

 

[hong]

This is fantastic. Now people can actually dump Con without totally screwing over their survivability.

Tee hee. We actually had one guy make up a 10 Con character at 20th level, just for the heck of it. He died in his first battle, after a balor explodiated in his face. Then he went unconscious in his second battle, and would have died if I hadn't pulled him out of there. It continued in much the same vein for the rest of his career.

 

[Mistwell]

Con modifies your healing surges I think. So, while it doesn't have as much influence on your max hit points, it does influence your ability to survive a battle or adventure longer.

It's looking like a pretty "elegant" change to me.

 

[WhatGravitas]

It's looking like a pretty "elegant" change to me.

That's an very elegant change for various reasons:

1) You have less "upfront" hit points, meaning you get more often into low hp -> more drama!
2) Makes PC harder to kill, without making them ridiculously invincible - you need to survive the attack to recover (thus PCs are less prone to say "I have 500 hp, nothing will kill me!")
3) And hence may handle the massive damage idea
4) Equalizes PC hit points, making it much easier for the DM to adjust his encounters properly.
5) You don't get fiddly problems with a level-dependant Con-modifier.
6) Makes healing becomes a tactical choice "I have one surge left... should I risk getting hit, or heal now, wasting the surplus?" -> more depth and options

Cheers, LT.

 

[kennew142]

I have to say that I really like this change. At first level, when hit points are mostly represented by actual toughness, Constitution is a fairly large portion of hit points. As you level, and hit points are represented more and more by skill and luck, the percentage of your hit points derived from Constitution becomes less significant.

 

[ltbaxter]

Con modifier to HP may not be gone

Guys, while you may be right, I think there's more than a decent chance that hit point modifiers for constitution might still be there.

The bonus for a character's hit points is currently = (Con modifier) * (character level) (or hit dice in some cases).

It is not the case that the hit point bonus is characterized by new hit points = a hit die plus con modifier.

The difference of course is that hp due to con bonus are 'retroactive'. Hit points for a 10th lvl character who gains another +1 con modifier go up 10 points. They don't stay the same waiting for a new level. Contrast that with skill points, for which you get nnn points + INT bonus when you go up a level.

Note that saying your hp at first lvl is 12 + con score doesn't invalidate this point.

Whether or not the bonus should be per level or not is subjective and I'm not here to debate that (although I prefer it per level) - I'm just pointing out that from what we've read in the rogue article, it seems to me premature to think that it's gone in 4e. (If there's another source that more definitively says it is gone, please let me know)

 

[Sir Brennen]

ltbaxter, I'm not sure what point you were making by explaining how Con Mod works in 3.x, I don't think it'll still be there for 4E. Look at this section:

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution modifier

Note they call out the "+ Con Score" and "+ Con Mod" for 1st level HP and Surges respectively. Throughout the rest of the article, it's also specifically mentioned when an ability modifier applies. One would think that if Con Mod also affect HPs, that it would be listed right there.

Plus, given the fact that the new starting hit points plus 5 hp per level is already above well above the 3E average (before CON mod), adding in the CON mod would be pushing HP totals even higher than 3E. Now consider the fact that, based on several things we've seen so far, damage ranges seem significantly reduced in 4E. More HP and lower average damage would result in much longer fights, which is not something I think they were going for.

Also, since the CON Mod increases the number of times you can use the Healing Surge (which we're assuming gives you some hit points back), having it add to the actual hit points as well would be, in effect, double-counting the increase in hit points.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The Healing Surges suggests that high Con characters have more staying power over the course of a day, rather than a markedly increased staying power in a single battle.

(Although I suppose that Surges do matter in a drawn out encounter, but even a PC with a modest Con has a few Surges to work with.)

Once you get past 7th level, I do not that the raw HP difference between a 10 Con and a 17 Con will feel like much at all. It will be the extra Surges.