D&D General No More "Humans in Funny Hats": Racial Mechanics Should Determine Racial Cultures

[Aldarc]

Exactly. Floating removes any tension, any counter balance, and simply you put your stats wherever you want.

Orc Lock?
Gnome Lock?
Elf Lock?
Tiefling Lock?

+2 Cha.

Same, same, same, same.

Why would you say that? We were assured in this very thread that there are people who like to play against type. Are you saying that these holier-than-thou roleplayers won't play against type now that floating ASIs are a thing?

 

[Scribe]

Why would you say that? We were assured in this very thread that there are people who like to play against type. Are you saying that these holier-than-thou roleplayers won't play against type now that floating ASIs are a thing?

I'm not talking about other people.

If a Gnome Lock is assumed to be a +2, what fathomable reason is there to not have a +2 for every other race?

That's literally the primary complaint against fixed ASI.

"I cant put the stat where it most benefits my class."

Unless you want to argue that that ISNT the most likely outcome, but...I dont see it at all.

Removal of restriction -> fast path to the same stats which are ideal for your class.

 

[Bolares]

Yes, with Floating ASI, everything is more of the same. This is reinforced by you later.

Without a layer for ASI consideration, you have "What race benefits my class most based on the 1 or 2 special rules a race gets."

Characters will be, objectively, more the same, because you can always optimize your ASI.

I think we discussed this a lot already, and I think I mostly understand where you come from in this topic, but reading this a question came up. (Sorry if you have already adressed this in the thread, but I skipped a lot of circular arguments and may have not seen it.)

I get that you don't like removing ASI in the already published races because you feel there are too few mechanical benefits when you remove racial ASI. But it the races where redone, in a manner that gave them mechanical identity and uniqueness without ASIs, would you be OK with it?

 

[Aldarc]

I'm not talking about other people.

If a Gnome Lock is assumed to be a +2, what fathomable reason is there to not have a +2 for every other race?

So you can play against type.

 

[Scribe]

I think we discussed this a lot already, and I think I mostly understand where you come from in this topic, but reading this a question came up. (Sorry if you have already adressed this in the thread, but I skipped a lot of circular arguments and may have not seen it.)

I get that you don't like removing ASI in the already published races because you feel there are too few mechanical benefits when you remove racial ASI. But it the races where redone, in a manner that gave them mechanical identity and uniqueness without ASIs, would you be OK with it?

No. At one point I thought I could see a reason, but not really anymore after I looked at the math.

ASI is a layer. It doesn't need to be the only layer, it doesn't need to be the most important or impactful (because it isnt, its a +1) but its a layer.

I want more layers, not less.

Its totally fine for everyone else, and I'm not satisfied with the races of 5e at all now that I look at what they are doing, so its not really relevant as its not just ASI that I think sucks, its a lot of what 5e is doing.

Other systems have more defined races, and they still have ASI (even with negative modifiers, to the horror of all) and it works. D&D had ASI with negative modifiers for decades, and it worked.

That's the path I'm going to continue down, and nobody needs worry about it, because they will have floating ASI and a few special rules in 5e and that's enough for them, so great.

So you can play against type.

What type?

Cannot assume.

Alignment, Language, Culture, ASI, Canon, Lore.

What type?

 

[Helldritch]

And some were well-received. It's your job to make the argument that the particular change was not well-received rather than trying to throw shade at the change via guilt by association with the negative changes.

Been there done that. You know as well as I what was wrong, and if not read ancient posts and draw your own conclusions.

My main point in answering that was that no edition did racial ASI exactly as everyone would because no one truly agree with one way or another. For me, Tieflings, should not receive charisma bonuses but they do. So I play with the rules. What an edition gives you may change in an other. It is as simple as that.

 

[Aldarc]

What type?

Cannot assume.

Alignment, Language, Culture, ASI.

What type?

Class type.

Can assume, because you are picking the class.

Class features.

Class type.

 

[Helldritch]

Were you just trying to say something inflammatory about 4e for no reason then?

Because again, the stuff people had issues with (or lied about to get people to have issues with) had nothing to do with Racial ASIs.

Just like 5ed racial ASI are quite OK in my book. And if you read my other post, you will see that I did like 4ed. But stating the obvious is not inflammatory. Even 4ed did not racial ASI as I would have liked, but you do with what the rules gives you. Or... you homebrew. Seeing 5ed changing in the middle of it is... well, not well perceived.

 

[Bolares]

No. At one point I thought I could see a reason, but not really anymore after I looked at the math.

ASI is a layer. It doesn't need to be the only layer, it doesn't need to be the most important or impactful (because it isnt, its a +1) but its a layer.

I want more layers, not less.

Sure, it's a layer, but what I'm asking is if there is a way for them remove ASIs and still make a fullfiling race for you to play. Is there a way to remove this layer but add another that satisfies you?

 

[Scribe]

Class type.

Can assume, because you are picking the class.

Class features.

Class type.

Race and Class have not been explicitly linked/restricted/defined, for some time.

An Orc in Eberron is not an Orc in FR, in regards to 'type'.

Type isnt even a thing anymore, when a Race is literally a couple of rules.

Here's Tiefling for when we get everything brought up to Fizban's template.

Darkvision: The usual.
Hellish Resistance: Fire Resist.
Legacy: See Table.

Legacy	Cantrip	Level 3	Level 5
Asmodeus	Thaumaturgy	Hellish Rebuke	Darkness
Baalzebul	Thaumaturgy	Ray of Sickness	Crown of Madness
Dispater	Thaumaturgy	Disguise Self	Detect Thoughts
Fierna	Friends	Charm Person	Suggestion
Glasya	Minor Illusion	Disguise Self	Invisibility
Levistus	Ray of Frost	Armor of Agathys	Darkness
Mammon	Mage Hand	Tenser's Floating Disk	Arcane Lock
Mephistopheles	Mage Hand	Burning Hands	Flame Blade
Zariel	Thaumaturgy	Searing Smite	Branding Smite
Feral (Devil's Tongue)	Vicious Mockery	Charm Person	Enthrall