No more WotC Star Wars site

[DEFCON 1]

Games Workshop shows that the lifetime of a miniatures game is significantly longer than 5-10 years.

Don't even attempt to use Games Workshop's work in the miniatures game field to justify why WotC should have continued to produce their RPG. If you want to attempt an apples to apples comparison of WotC's licensed RPG to another company's RPG, that's all well and good. But GW's Warhammer Fantasy, 40K, and Lord of the Rings Miniature games are COMPLETELY different animals than the WotC Star Wars roleplaying game.

Games Workshop's miniatures games are the ONLY reason that company is in business. And their miniatures sell for a heck of a lot more than any of the WotC miniatures ever did. So trying to use GW as a reason why WotC should stay in business with the Star Wars license is folly at best.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

I can't see them releasing SAGA Generic Edition because mechanically they have moved on to 4th edition, and as the upcoming Gamma World set shows, that's the way they are going. There's no need to maintain a separate rule system from a defunct game line. You're more likely to see a Star Frontiers universe game with 4th edition mechanics than you are a generic SAGA ruleset. I thought a SAGA Gamma World would have had a lot of potential, but 4th ed may work just fine there.

 

[pawsplay]

I seemed clear to me early on that editing and design was not going well with Saga, certainly not as well as D&D 3e/4e, not even as well as Star Wars d20 revised. The system had some real gems in its design, but the class system ended up nonsensical, the math was all bad, and no one could get their story straight on do's and don't's when it came to rules expansions. Fundamentally, the system could not duplicate some of the most notable scenes in Star Wars, ranging from Mace Windu taking on a platoon of droids at once, Sidious carving up three Jedi in three seconds, Vader choking a Rebel trooper, and so forth. The resources were not there to reboot the line as Star Wars Saga Revised, although they probably thought about it, so they tried to finish out the run with some good sellers and end it.

 

[Dragonbait]

I'll miss the SAGA edition even more than I'll miss the Star Wars license. I'll just have to keep searching for that D&D-style SAGA edition. Someday I may find it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Would any of us truly be upset if at GenCon they announced their own Space Opera game release?

I don't think anyone would be upset... but I also think everyone would raise an eyebrow and say 'Why bother'? If you can't/won't produce Star Wars... why would you bother to produce a game like Star Wars? How many people out there want to buy and play a 'space opera' RPG but "Oh jeez, if only it wasn't in the Star Wars Universe!"? I think we can safely say that the numbers for that are infinitesimally small. Nowhere near enough to justify forsaking other genres in an attempt to re-catch the Star Wars lightning in a bottle.

 

[TheYeti1775]

I don't know. I'm betting they would have to change it up drastically so they wouldn't get sued by Lucas and Star Wars fans would want to play Star Wars.

No not really, as long as they stayed away from calling it the Force/Jedi/Sith mechnically they don't have to stray far at all. Light Sabers are now Laser Swords, etc.

I can't see them releasing SAGA Generic Edition because mechanically they have moved on to 4th edition, and as the upcoming Gamma World set shows, that's the way they are going. There's no need to maintain a separate rule system from a defunct game line. You're more likely to see a Star Frontiers universe game with 4th edition mechanics than you are a generic SAGA ruleset. I thought a SAGA Gamma World would have had a lot of potential, but 4th ed may work just fine there.

I think a clone (excuse the pun) of it in 4E would actually work fine.
4E's method of Daily/Encounter/At Will/Utility/etc powers lends itself well to abilities of characters in a Space setting.

I don't think anyone would be upset... but I also think everyone would raise an eyebrow and say 'Why bother'? If you can't/won't produce Star Wars... why would you bother to produce a game like Star Wars? How many people out there want to buy and play a 'space opera' RPG but "Oh jeez, if only it wasn't in the Star Wars Universe!"? I think we can safely say that the numbers for that are infinitesimally small. Nowhere near enough to justify forsaking other genres in an attempt to re-catch the Star Wars lightning in a bottle.

Why not, no one else is filling the void that we are aware of. Even if they did it as a simple release much like their 3 book policy of settings they are using now. If it pays off on the 3 books, expand the line.
Players / Gamemaster / Creatures, Ships, & Planets of Systems

 

[Mournblade94]

I don't think anyone would be upset... but I also think everyone would raise an eyebrow and say 'Why bother'? If you can't/won't produce Star Wars... why would you bother to produce a game like Star Wars? How many people out there want to buy and play a 'space opera' RPG but "Oh jeez, if only it wasn't in the Star Wars Universe!"? I think we can safely say that the numbers for that are infinitesimally small. Nowhere near enough to justify forsaking other genres in an attempt to re-catch the Star Wars lightning in a bottle.

I disagree completely. I LOVE LOVE LOVE STAR WARS. However I don't play the RPG. STAR WARS is fantasy genre. I want my science fiction to be SCIENCE and FICTION not MAGIC and FICTION.

Alternity sold pretty well, so does Traveller. I know many people that are interested in playing epic sci fi WITHOUT it being Star Wars.

Incidentally I have all the books for the STar Wars RPG but I cannot work up the enthusiasm to run a game in it as I can Alternity or Pathfinder.

 

[DEFCON 1]

STAR WARS is fantasy genre. I want my science fiction to be SCIENCE and FICTION not MAGIC and FICTION.

Alternity sold pretty well, so does Traveller. I know many people that are interested in playing epic sci fi WITHOUT it being Star Wars.

The only problem with your comment is... I wasn't talking about epic, hard sci-fi. I was talking about space-opera. You're disagreeing with a comment I never made.

If people don't want Star Wars... even fewer want a game like Star Wars, only without all the Star Warsy bits.

 

[SoldierBlue]

The reason I believe they didn't do modules is someone in WotC thinks that because modules are only sold to 1/6th of each group that they wouldn't make enough money to merit producing them. Each Star Wars book was made both for players and GMs combined.

The only reason why we get modules in DnD is the player base is so large they can justify it with larger profits. Even still, I think DnD suffers from the "Not just the GM" programming. They have given us minimal GM aids for each campaign world and have mainly focused on giving the players lots of classes and feats.

Yeah - I've heard that arguement elsewhere. I think, as has been discussed elsewhere in these forums, that Paizo is bucking that trend.

But to those who actually played SAGA, how was it?

I've heard that it was incapable of properly emulating cinematic space opera, and I've also heard that it was a solid system that rewarded smart play?

What's the word from the experienced players/GMs of SAGA?

 

[karlindel]

Originally Posted by DEFCON1
I don't think anyone would be upset... but I also think everyone would raise an eyebrow and say 'Why bother'? If you can't/won't produce Star Wars... why would you bother to produce a game like Star Wars? How many people out there want to buy and play a 'space opera' RPG but "Oh jeez, if only it wasn't in the Star Wars Universe!"? I think we can safely say that the numbers for that are infinitesimally small. Nowhere near enough to justify forsaking other genres in an attempt to re-catch the Star Wars lightning in a bottle.

I think that number of people interested in a space opera rpg that are not interested in a Star Wars rpg is much larger than you think. Although Star Wars is a very popular universe, there are a LOT of space opera universes out there in novels, and a lot of stories that can be told that do not involve the conceits of the Star Wars universe. I personally would be more interested in the SAGA system if it were not tied to the Star Wars universe. I have several friends that enjoy space opera, but would not even consider purchasing it because it was so tied to Star Wars, which they are not interested in.

There are many space opera games that do not involve Star Wars:
Alternity
Babylon 5
Blue Planet (may be closer to Hard Sci Fi)
Fading Suns (my personal favorite)
Farscape
Jovian Chronicles
Prime Directive/Star Trek
Robotech
Serenity
Space 1889
Star Frontiers (admittedly very old)
Trinity

There are also a number of generic systems that support space opera:
Big Eyes Small Mouth
GURPS
HERO system
Savage Worlds