No! No! Baaaaaaad Marvel Comics!

[Arnwyn]

I mean honestly people...it's done get over it. You will either like it or not. Period. Whining about it on the internet for three pages is pretty sad.

I see you're new to the internet.

Welcome! You'll get straightened out soon enough.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

See, the thing is, without having seen the movie or read the script- how can you know that the power switching is an omission or addition that creates problems?

It creates problems if the switch is intentional or accidental:

If intentional:

1) Its a tactic that the SS would use whenever applicable. Most opponents would be so confused that they'd be easy pickings. As I mentioned above, in the clip I saw, the two initial victims are stymied for minutes- that's an eternity in a battle.

If unintentional:

1) A character who is, according to Marvel's official site, capable of controling matter on a molecular level at a planetary scale to recreate whole ecosystems for multicellular beings - such as when he restored life to a damaged planet- can't control his power when he touches one single cosmically irradiated mutant.

And not a singularly rare mutant, either- Marvel's used that trope at least one other time when they created the villainous U-Foes.

And, having seen all of- what- 5 minutes of the movie you already know that the Silver Surfer doesn't somehow take advantage of the power switching? Intentional or not?

As a rational being with his particular line of work (which he's been doing for some time)- delivering up life-bearing planets to be nibbled by Big G- he knows that defeated planetary defenders are dead if he wins, and his own planet is in jeopardy if he doesn't.

Killing them with a quick zap while they're disoriented is 1) Easy, 2) Humane compared to being eaten, 3) Makes it easier for him to concentrate on other potential hostile, making his job easier.

Besides, clips have aired that are clearly subsequent to the power-switching- Sue & Johnny still live.

So- basically, now your complaint is the very thing that is the foundation of the actual storyline in the original Surfer/FF storyline?

No, my complaint is as it always has been from my initial post- that the power-switching plot device is shoddy writing without foundation or respect for the core character.

The morality aspect of the character remains true, but the events immediately subsequent to the power-switch plot device would seem to indicate that his morals haven't yet been reawakened, meaning that he should have taken full advantage of the situation...resulting in the probable deaths of Johnny and Sue.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

It creates problems if the switch is intentional or accidental:

If intentional:

1) Its a tactic that the SS would use whenever applicable. Most opponents would be so confused that they'd be easy pickings. As I mentioned above, in the clip I saw, the two initial victims are stymied for minutes- that's an eternity in a battle.

"in the clip I saw..."

This is my point. You're making assumptions on a brief clip, and not the actual movie itself. You can't possibly know that it creates plot problems without having seen or read the entire movie (or having it described to you by someone else).

Now DonTadow, having seen the movie, is able to back up your assumptions with actual measured experience, but this entire thread up until the release date of this movie, has been you jumping to conclusions based on something you had seen a clip of.

And then theres,

If unintentional:

1) A character who is, according to Marvel's official site, capable of controling matter on a molecular level at a planetary scale to recreate whole ecosystems for multicellular beings - such as when he restored life to a damaged planet- can't control his power when he touches one single cosmically irradiated mutant.

"according to Marvel's official site..."

Marvel's official site's description of the character and his powers is based on the comic version of the character- it has no relation to the movie version. As we've all discussed here previously, the movie version is not always equivalent to the comic version. It happens that the movie versions are, of course, based around the concept of the comic versions, but there are often changes made (and, in the strange way that art imitates life, or at least other art) changes have also been made to the comics based on the film (Pete's webbing in the comics is now organic, for instance).

So now we see that your premise for this thread was based both on a clip of the movie, and your assumptions that the character is the same as he is in the comics.

As a rational being with his particular line of work (which he's been doing for some time)- delivering up life-bearing planets to be nibbled by Big G- he knows that defeated planetary defenders are dead if he wins, and his own planet is in jeopardy if he doesn't.

Killing them with a quick zap while they're disoriented is 1) Easy, 2) Humane compared to being eaten, 3) Makes it easier for him to concentrate on other potential hostile, making his job easier.

Besides, clips have aired that are clearly subsequent to the power-switching- Sue & Johnny still live.

Now you're reading the movie Silver Surfer's thoughts? How about this possibility-

As a rational being with his particular line of work (which he's been doing for some time)- delivering up life-bearing planets to be nibbled by Big G- but also being in possession of a moral conscience (that selfsame moral conscience that couldn't let him stand by and see his own planet, full of innocents, be destroyed) he knows that Galactus will go on eating planets with or without him, so to save his own world, he will lead Galactus to other worlds, but he cannot bring himself to do any murdering on his own, so he tries to assuage what morality he has by allowing Galactus to do all the dirty work, and just being the herald of Galactus' arrival.

Essentially, he's making the choice of being an accessory to murder, rather than being the murderer himself.

No, my complaint is as it always has been from my initial post- that the power-switching plot device is shoddy writing without foundation or respect for the core character.

And, again, you are making this judgement based on a clip of the movie, and not the entirety of the movie. It's the Blind Man and Elephant tale. Or Chicken Little and the falling sky.

The morality aspect of the character remains true, but the events immediately subsequent to the power-switch plot device would seem to indicate that his morals haven't yet been reawakened, meaning that he should have taken full advantage of the situation...resulting in the probable deaths of Johnny and Sue.

Except that, perhaps, he's not a cold-blooded murderer? But then, to know that, we'd have to- you know- watch the movie.

 

[BOZ]

They're messing with the mythology!

*sigh*

i know... but it's to be expected. i can't recall a Marvel or DC-based movie where the characters weren't messed around with more than a little to make the movie work.

 

[Tarthalion]

I see you're new to the internet.

Welcome! You'll get straightened out soon enough.

Nope...I've been on these boards under one name or another since before 3E when Eric was running the place. I just have zero tolerance for stupidity like this.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And, again, you are making this judgement based on a clip of the movie,

Sometimes, a sample is all you need.

One does not need to see the whole movie if the clip is utter garbage.

For example- what point was there in my seeing the movie of The Scarlet Letter when I knew that they completely changed the ending, and thus the lessons & tone of the story?

You can't possibly know that it creates plot problems

Know? No I can't.

But I can draw reasonable conclusions from what I know of the character & from what I've seen of the changes...and I did.

And I was right.

To look at another relatively recent example, perhaps you recall the outcry about the production of the LoTR movies. One scene that was filmed involved the on-screen torture of various wizards as the powers of darkness sweep across Middle Earth.

There was a great outcry on the fansites which got back to Peter Jackson's group- and they edited it out. The fans believed- IMHO, correctly- that such overt torture had no place on the screen in the LotR movies. There was already going to be a lot of the original left on the cutting room floor (assuming it was even scripted & filmed in the first place) and the torture scene smacked of someone taking undue liberties with the core mythology.

As a rational being with his particular line of work (which he's been doing for some time)- delivering up life-bearing planets to be nibbled by Big G- but also being in possession of a moral conscience (that selfsame moral conscience that couldn't let him stand by and see his own planet, full of innocents, be destroyed) he knows that Galactus will go on eating planets with or without him, so to save his own world, he will lead Galactus to other worlds, but he cannot bring himself to do any murdering on his own, so he tries to assuage what morality he has by allowing Galactus to do all the dirty work, and just being the herald of Galactus' arrival.

Essentially, he's making the choice of being an accessory to murder, rather than being the murderer himself.

And while he's busy being an accessory, he isn't taking the chance to euthanize those he can, leaving them instead to face the horror of being devoured alive by a being they can scarecely comprehend.

Personally, given the choice between being something's dinner and a mercy killing, I'll take the latter every time.

Except that, perhaps, he's not a cold-blooded murderer?

See above.

 

[Bront]

Just saw a clip from the new Fantastic Four movie...

The first one seemed bad enough in the clips that I didn't go to see it, and apparently, I wasn't alone- like Yogi Berra said, people stayed away in droves. However, it did well enough to spawn a sequel.

A sequel in which, for some reason, coming in contact with the Silver Surfer causes the FF to exchange powers.

WTF?

This is one of their iconic characters & storylines...and they screw around with it? What's next? Is Galactus going to be a giant Pac-Man? Will he even be sentient or will he be just some kind of mindless natural phenomenon?

When will Hollywood learn? When you're working with an established classic of any genre, you don't need to mess with it.

Apparently, I'll be ignoring this movie even more than the first one...JOIN ME!

Wikipidia says

An alien named Zius came to Earth,[issue # needed] the location of the one being in the universe who could nullify his Galactus-proof planet-cloaking invisibility shield, Susan Richards. Zius threatened to destroy the planet if Sue did not sacrifice herself, but Reed used his power gun to switch her powers with Johnny's and tricked Zius into leaving the planet. As he left orbit, Galactus destroyed Zius's spaceship and claimed Johnny as his new Herald. The cosmic power he was imbued with let him understand whatever he analyzed, leading him to a new appreciation and love for his family. Not wanting to lead Galactus to populated worlds, the Fantastic Four and Quasar managed to make Galactus human for a time. Johnny's power cosmic faded, though a remnant of it caused the FF's powers to be temporarily transferred to four random New York citizens.

Of course, it's wikipedia, but there's an example of power transfer due to the power cosmic as used by a Herald.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Of course, it's wikipedia, but there's an example of power transfer due to the power cosmic as used by a Herald.

Not quite.

It is an example of a power transfer due to:

Reed used his power gun to switch her powers with Johnny's

and only after that, being imbued with the power cosmic by Big G, and the power's subsequent fade do we get:

a remnant of it caused the FF's powers to be temporarily transferred to four random New York citizens.

It wasn't the power cosmic as used by a Herald- its the slow fade of the power cosmic from a triply-tweeked (initial accident, Reed's switcher, and G's bestowal of the power) being going out of control in an oddball fashion.

That's not use, that's an accident, and its an accident due to an inexperienced wielder losing control of his fading power.

Hardly in the same class as a similar event resulting from dealing with an experienced user of the power.

That's like comparing the results of me driving a Formula 1 racecar for the first time, never having driven a manual transmission, while drunk as compared to a 15 year veteran of the sport. My having some kind of an accident is virtually assured. His having a comperable accident is extremely unlikely.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And a last point to those who are intent upon criticizing my opinion of the movie because:

...you are making this judgement based on a clip of the movie

I guarantee you, if you are completely honest with yourself, you have done essentially the same thing at least once each time you have:

1) Decided not to see a movie because it is a "chick flick," or isn't your favorite genre- perhaps the director has created it in a way you'd actually enjoy it; or

2) Decided not to buy a book because of the exerpt you read on its cover or dust jacket or because it isn't your favorite genre- perhaps the writer has written it in a way you'd actually enjoy it; or

3) Declined to eat a certain dish because it contains X ingredient (assuming no health issues, of course)- perhaps the cook has prepared it in a way you'd actually enjoy it; or

4) Declined to buy an RPG because of what you'd read about it;

and a host of other behaviors.

There is no shame in that- its how we humans get through life without being bogged down in our decision-making process. We rarely form opinions based on full information- we sample the data around us and decide.

Imagine if we actually had to decide based on fully informed choices...eating every okra dish possible before eliminating okra dishes out of hand, paying to watch every "chick flick" ever made before deciding we didn't like any of them, and doing the same for books.

Imagine having to play a game of F.A.T.A.L. before deciding not to buy it.

 

[Felon]

No, my complaint is as it always has been from my initial post- that the power-switching plot device is shoddy writing without foundation or respect for the core character.

Danny, I gotta wonder what era of Marvel Comics had this immaculate consistency and commitment to internal logic that you seem to be expecting from the movie. You think you can just say "well, if their powers switched this one time, the surfer would be doing it all the time". That's pretty much a load of nonsense. The power switch is the exact sort of quirky happenstance that occurred in silver age comics.

People have provided plenty of examples of this happening, and you seem pretty quick to dismiss that they have any relevance. You wanna dig in your heels and vent, then go for it, but if you're trying to do more than vent--if you really want to present some objectively-derived arguement for how the power switch is such a disastrous idea, then you're wasting your time. Comics are loaded with paradoxes, events happen once as a plot device and then is never referenced again, or is even contradicted in later comics. That's always been the way of comics. Logic and consistency have always taken a backseat to endless possibilities.