I guess you guys never used all the splat books, because you keep singling out the few low level feats instead of all of the good ones for some reason.
Ok what is a good feat my 7th level fighter with can take to be great at hiding no later than 8th level if he has invested zero points to date.
You claim I can do that, now tell me how!
If I can't do it at 8th level (and I already know I can't) tell me the process to make myself great at this and how many levels it is going to take.
All I know is that I can only achieve about 5% of the concepts in 5e that I could in 3e. At least only 5% without having to kludge something that really doesn't work because it only kindsa, sorta works if I squint sideways.
And I know I can't achieve even 5% of the concepts I can acheive in 5E in a .
You have already said on an earlier thread you pick a race that compliments your class, so you have already writeen off a bunch of concepts right there.
What other skills? Fighters didn't do skills really.
EXACTLY! Can do that concept.... at least not well.
And you can take the Open Minded feat to immediately gain 5 skill points if you want.
So that is 5 points halved to invest in a cross-class skill, giving me actually 2 extra (and one left over). I take that feat, invest the 2 points, the 1 I get for being a fighter and I still suck at the skill for this level. Not I am mediocre, not I am below average. I still suck even after spending a feat on it.
If you are taking 6 levels, it's because you want to take 6 levels. Not because you have to. Besides. A lot of fighters had a small int bonus and/or were human. Between the feat and levels, 1-3 levels will see you to just about anywhere you need to be.
Ok I told you how long I think it would take, map out for me how to actually do it in 2 levels. I am a 7th level fighter without any points in the Shadowdancer prerequisites now, tell me how to get a level of Shadowdancer NLT than character level 11.
Please, you say I can do it in 1-3 levels now tell me how!
Because if you didn't, the feat would need to be much weaker. The gating let the feat be more powerful.
Screw that! This makes no sense at all. Gating in is exactly what the name implies - gatekeeping!
Just let me take the feat when I want it. If I want to skip skill focus and take skill master I should be able to, I want to skip dodge and spring attack and take Whirlwind attack I should be able to.
There is no reason to chain feats or bar certain characters from certain feats.
Nope. That's a misperception. My personal experience and the experiences of all my players says otherwise.
I've given you many examples of things you are not allowed to take bby the rules.
Most good feats didn't need chains like that. That you keep ignoring all of those feats to concentrate on the few chain/1st level feats is telling.
Ok, give me some examples of good feats that are not chained and are the equivalent of chained feats in their respective group. For example a non-chained combat feat that is the equivalent of Greater Weapon Specialization.
You might not(but usually could) pick the feat that you wanted as soon as you leveled, but if you couldn't do it right away, you could in 1-3 levels which represented growing into that aspect.
First off, I don't want to "grow into" something. I want to get it now. Second this is just factually false. If my 7th Level Wizard wants to take Whirlwind attack after spending a night in a Dervish camp she can't do it, and she can't "grow into it" in 1-3 levels.
If she stays Wizard it will never be possible to get that feat at all. Even if she multiclasses to fighter it is going to take 5-6 levels to get there.
There was no Strawman, because I did not attribute to you any particular argument and then try to refute it. I flat out refuted your incorrect assertion players could just choose anything they wanted that was in 5e by telling you what RAW said.
No, we are talking about the number of options the rules support, and in 5E they support everything theoretically possible due to the fact that according to the rules, the rules themselves are mutable.
This is the logical fallacy with your earlier observation.
I don't know why you assume stupid characters when the average PC will have a 12 int and therefore +1 skill point per level. And you can further take a feat to just get 5 skill points if you want. It's not going to be 5 levels in most cases.
Well to start with, if it is my character I am building I would have decided what his or her intelligence was, and I will point out you are right now fencing my ability to build this off an average intelligence character concept.
Also, your 5 skill points you used a feat for still get halved to invest in cross-class skills.
You are also ignoring story. Story isn't POOF I'm now a Shadowdancer.
If that is the story I am trying to achieve that that is EXACTLY the story I am trying to achieve.
So what you are saying is the rules don't really support all these story options, they only provide very limited and counched support,or support over time.
Story is, "I gain a little bit here and a little bit there and grow over time into a Shadowdancer." Even if it takes you 5 levels(and it won't), that's still a valid and appropriate story change.
Ok tell me how to do it in fewer, let's assume I want to do this with my 8 intelligence Elf fighter.
The average fighter has a 12 int. 12 is the average of 4d6-L. You are deliberately giving the fighter a lower intelligence than he would have and that's not right.
So it is "not right" to play a low intelligence fighter if I want to?
What you are really saying here is that the 3.5E rules don't support a low intelligence fighter character concept. Add that to the long list of characters you can't do effectively in 3.5E!
My 5e PHB says natural explorer.
My 5e PHB says favored enemy.
My 5e PHB has no blind fighting as an option.
So you don't know the rules. The first two are options you do not have to take, the 3rd is a fighting style option available to Rangers ..... and as I noted earlier undead, despite not being required, is a themtically approriate favored enemy for the Shadowfell.
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