D&D General Nolzur creates inclusive miniatures, people can't handle it.

[MGibster]

Not saying there is. I'm saying I'm pointing out the hypocrisy to suddenly care about "realism" of what an adventurer could do in a wheelchair when the question isn't even asked about the low STR or CON PC who would struggle against all the same obstacles.

It's not hypocrisy. When it comes to fantastical elements in a game, most of us have something that throws us out of the setting while accepting something else that's just as implausible. And the reverse is true, there's likely something that you have trouble swallowing that someone finds easy to accept. I have a friend who doesn't care for zombie fiction like Night of the Living Dead because he can't get past the premise of the animated dead without an explicit supernatural cause. He's fine with a necromancer raising the dead in Army of Darkness but he won't even give The Walking Dead a second glance. I'm okay with a wheelchair in D&D because I can easily fit it into most any setting.

 

[Zardnaar]

You're getting pushback because you are going beyond simply saying, "This isn't for me." You are questioning whether it belongs in D&D and ignoring the very valid arguments for inclusivity . . . and from people with actual disabilities who are telling you that, YES, this belongs in the game. You may not mean to be saying this, but this is exactly how you and others are coming across.

If there is another mini, or piece of artwork, depicting an able-bodied person . . . and you don't care for the mini . . . would you make as big of a deal about it? "Ugh, that halfling miniature has a huge head, I can't stand it. NOT IN MY GAME!!!!" Where are those threads?

I will say that . . . in the future, if a wheelchair bound player joined your game, and wanted to play a character who is also in a wheelchair (and use one of the above minis to depict them) . . . what would you tell them? Even if it was in your ancient Greek fantasy game? That answer would go a long way towards how inclusive and open-minded a person you truly are.

It's a moot point but hypothetically I woukd at least have a conversation about it.

My current players asked for the ancient Greece campaign. There's no ball bearings, no rubber, no stirrups, no magitech as such.

The local craftsman could probably craft sonething with wheels but it's probably very crude. The wheel chair player is welcome insisting on a 19th century tech added to 5 century BCE game isn't reasonable imho. I don't allow plate armor either. I would explain that it's up to them if they want to play or not and I'm open to it on the following game. Eberron, Mystara, Ravnica not a problem.

Using your logic someone new wants to join my game (session 2 is Thursday btw). My current players have consented to the game world. That includes some things that would offend some people. They insist that I should include modern sensibilities and cater the campaign to them. Erm no sorry there's the door.

That discussion did take place I said I'm setting in part of the world it won't matter but some parts yes such things are there eg slavery. Even wrote a players guide laying out what to expect. Put a fair bit of effort prepping it tbh.

Normally my players pick from curated list of 5 options. I would be willing to design a campaign from the ground up to fit in a wheel chair up to and including a magic, hovering self propelled one. Hell it might make a decent follow up to my Greek game (the Atlanteans would have such things). Name of the campaign is Fate of Atlantis.

 

[Autumnal]

I will say that . . . in the future, if a wheelchair bound player joined your game, and wanted to play a character who is also in a wheelchair (and use one of the above minis to depict them) . . . what would you tell them? Even if it was in your ancient Greek fantasy game? That answer would go a long way towards how inclusive and open-minded a person you truly are.

For what it’s worth, as a wheelchair user myself, I wouldn’t have a problem with a GM saying that, no, that kind of wheelchair doesn’t fit an Ancient Greek vibe. I’d want to work with them on an alternative, like a small brass automaton that can carry a person in a fixed chair, or a two-wheeled cart pulled by a couple of dogs (a friend of mine made one for her Malamutes to pull when she had a broken leg not heal right and it served her great for a year or so near Mt. Shasta), or something like that. Adapting to specific circumstances is A-OK with me as long as it’s not just pushback on the basic concept at all.

 

[Zardnaar]

For what it’s worth, as a wheelchair user myself, I wouldn’t have a problem with a GM saying that, no, that kind of wheelchair doesn’t fit an Ancient Greek vibe. I’d want to work with them on an alternative, like a small brass automaton that can carry a person in a fixed chair, or a two-wheeled cart pulled by a couple of dogs (a friend of mine made one for her Malamutes to pull when she had a broken leg not heal right and it served her great for a year or so near Mt. Shasta), or something like that. Adapting to specific circumstances is A-OK with me as long as it’s not just pushback on the basic concept at all.

How about discovering the Fate of Atlantis and they have things like plate armor and magi tech? Or play this game and next game Eberron or convince the other players on campaign supporting it. Ravnica house Izzet steam punk magitech one treat it as a tool:vehicle. How gonzo you want to go?

New player picked Greek themed, got another new player incoming think he wanted 5E (It's C&C) next game is 5E, other game is 5E but I'm not the DM but they can meet sone if the other players and potentially join the strahd game.

 

[Senior_WotC_Janitor]

Yes, you've noticed that there are immature and selfish people in the world. Not news. The best way to combat this is to just be a good person. Do the right thing, but do it quietly. People pick up on others behaviour. Sometimes they won't, but that's okay.

There are also more involved and constructive ways to change the world.

In any case, outrage posts are neither of these things.

Stuff it

 

[Hussar]

There's also an undercurrent of you're terrible if you dont allow it. I'm pointing out the DM side of things. I wouldn't allow a wheel chair in some of my games for the same reason I wouldn't allow a rifle, steam engine or light bulb all of which could theoretically be built using resources available in a typical campaign.

That's where you're mistaken.

You're not terrible if you don't allow it. Not allowing it is fine. That's totally up to you and whatever your group feels is groovy.

The undercurrent is that you're terrible if you feel the need to repeatedly talk about not allowing it in your game. It's not for you. It's not interesting to you. It's not something you use. So, again, for the third time, why talk about it? What's the upside here? What's the goal?

The only reasonable response to a mini like this is, "Oh, that's neat. About time."

 

[Dire Bare]

It's a moot point but hypothetically I woukd at least have a conversation about it.

My current players asked for the ancient Greece campaign. There's no ball bearings, no rubber, no stirrups, no magitech as such.

The local craftsman could probably craft sonething with wheels but it's probably very crude. The wheel chair player is welcome insisting on a 19th century tech added to 5 century BCE game isn't reasonable imho. I don't allow plate armor either. I would explain that it's up to them if they want to play or not and I'm open to it on the following game. Eberron, Mystara, Ravnica not a problem.

Using your logic someone new wants to join my game (session 2 is Thursday btw). My current players have consented to the game world. That includes some things that would offend some people. They insist that I should include modern sensibilities and cater the campaign to them. Erm no sorry there's the door.

That discussion did take place I said I'm setting in part of the world it won't matter but some parts yes such things are there eg slavery. Even wrote a players guide laying out what to expect. Put a fair bit of effort prepping it tbh.

Normally my players pick from curated list of 5 options. I would be willing to design a campaign from the ground up to fit in a wheel chair up to and including a magic, hovering self propelled one. Hell it might make a decent follow up to my Greek game (the Atlanteans would have such things). Name of the campaign is Fate of Atlantis.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

A chair with wheels isn't too hard to see at any point in human history, whether it's moved by arm-power, pulled by dogs, or has a magical enchantment. Especially in a fantasy version of human history with monsters and magic in the mix. A quick internet search reveals that wheelchairs actually go back to the 5th century BCE, and, get this . . . as depicted on a Greek vase!!! It's unclear if self-propelled chairs existed before 1655, but wheeled chairs go way back!

I've actually been wanting to run a Greek-themed campaign for quite some time, based on the Odyssey of the Dragonlords campaign, the Mysteries of Theros campaign, and a few other "Greece 5E" sources. These settings are all high-fantasy, but I can see certain D&D-isms or historical anachronisms that wouldn't seem to fit the theme. If none of my players, like yours, are disabled, then I wouldn't even spend brain power on wheelchairs in my ancient fantasy Greece.

But if one of them were, or a disabled gamer joined us later, and asked for their character to be wheelchair bound . . . I would totally accommodate that, no question. My precious campaign theme is not as important as making my players feel included and seen. And it wouldn't be hard to do at all, and stay within theme. If my other players balked at the idea . . . they could leave or stay, I like to play with people who also prioritize inclusivity and treating others well.

Chiron, the reclusive centaur philosopher and inventor is friends with the PC's parents and saw a need he could fill with invention . . . so he invented something never before seen, a chair with wheels the PC can move with their own arm power! Over the PC's childhood, Chiron went through many iterations until arriving at the current design . . . and has more ideas should the PCs swing by in the future!

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

A chair with wheels isn't too hard to see at any point in human history, whether it's moved by arm-power, pulled by dogs, or has a magical enchantment. Especially in a fantasy version of human history with monsters and magic in the mix. A quick internet search reveals that wheelchairs actually go back to the 5th century BCE, and, get this . . . as depicted on a Greek vase!!! It's unclear if self-propelled chairs existed before 1655, but wheeled chairs go way back!

I've actually been wanting to run a Greek-themed campaign for quite some time, based on the Odyssey of the Dragonlords campaign, the Mysteries of Theros campaign, and a few other "Greece 5E" sources. These settings are all high-fantasy, but I can see certain D&D-isms or historical anachronisms that wouldn't seem to fit the theme. If none of my players, like yours, are disabled, then I wouldn't even spend brain power on wheelchairs in my ancient fantasy Greece.

But if one of them were, or a disabled gamer joined us later, and asked for their character to be wheelchair bound . . . I would totally accommodate that, no question. My precious campaign theme is not as important as making my players feel included and seen. And it wouldn't be hard to do at all, and stay within theme. If my other players balked at the idea . . . they could leave or stay, I like to play with people who also prioritize inclusivity and treating others well.

Chiron, the reclusive centaur philosopher and inventor is friends with the PC's parents and saw a need he could fill with invention . . . so he invented something never before seen, a chair with wheels the PC can move with their own arm power! Over the PC's childhood, Chiron went through many iterations until arriving at the current design . . . and has more ideas should the PCs swing by in the future!

Might have wires crossed. Some sort of wheeled conveyance vs a more modern chair design. It's not going to be able to function as a device some people want (basically a battle chair?).

 

[overgeeked]

Just for a bit of context for the “that’s ahistorical” crowd, wheelchairs have been around since the 5th or 6th century BCE in China and Greece.

Wheelchair - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Vaalingrade]

Just for a bit of context for the “that’s ahistorical” crowd, wheelchairs have been around since the 5th or 6th century BCE in China and Greece.

Wheelchair - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Reality is so unrealistic. How dare it.