Non Hit Point Based Fantasy RPG?

[Calico_Jack73]

I think I've come to the conclusion that one of the things I don't like about D&D is the hit point system. I really like how Mutants and Masterminds handles damage in combat but I've got no idea how I'd fairly create a Toughness Save vs. Damage system for D&D to replicate it. The typical damage varies too much.

Anyway the point of this post is that I'd like to find a fantasy system that doesn't use hit points. If you know of any please post them here and tell me a bit about how they get around hit points.

 

[Plane Sailing]

True20, which basically uses a refinement of the Mutants and masterminds system, and does a darned good job of it to my mind.

Find out all about it at www.true20.com or in our d20 & OGL forum!

Cheers

 

[Glyfair]

Heroquest (previously Hero Wars) doesn't have a hit point system. It's been a while since I've looked in detail, but I think there are just categories of damage based on the outcome of the contests.

Dying Earth doesn't have a hit point system (you are either hurt, down, dying or dead). It took me a while to find it because combat doesn't have a section in the Table of Contents. The magic system is different from D&D, yet still based on the Vancian magic system (of course).

 

[scourger]

Savage Worlds gets away from the hit point model. The extras are either fine, shaken or out of the fight. Wild cards (PCs & named foes) have 3 wound levels before they're out of combat (unable or unwilling to continue battling). Running a game of Savage Worlds is thus much easier since there are not a lot of wounds to track.

I even made similar changes to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay by taking away the wound points of the low-level bad guys and making them subject to critical hits anytime they do take damage. That way, they either keep fighting or are out of the melee.

Either of these systems makes the PCs and special foes relatively more powerful, which is more dramatic for the players. It's not a lot of work for a player to track the hit points of 1 PC, and it's fun for them.

The best way I've thought to do it with d20 is to use the critical hit tables from HARP. Any hit would have damage rolled as usual but then added to d%. The corresponding result on the HARP critical charts should tell if the foe can continue to fight or is right out of the fray. Also, the HARP charts give damage totals for PCs or special foes to track. A normal d20 threat converted to a critical pushes the result toward the more serious damages. I haven't tried this system, but I've pondered it, especially since you can download HARP Lite for free and get some good critical hit tables from it.

 

[trancejeremy]

I think D6 Fantasy doesn't use hit points. At least, D6 generally doesn't, it uses a damage save, though it can use hit points as well.

 

[Terwox]

True20 handles this through making damage values for weapons static.

I recommend it.

 

[hrafnagud]

Neither HârnMaster nor Burning Wheel use hit points. In both sytems you track individual wounds, which, assuming they don't kill you outright, degrade your performance according to severity.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

I know nothing about burning wheel, but HârnMaster combat can be summed up fairly simply:
It’s a skill based percentage system.
All combat actions are opposed rolls, attacker rolls to hit, defender rolls to parry/dodge etc.
Best success wins, basic results are:
successful parry/dodge (no damage caused) or,
successful hit (damage caused).
A hit generated a hit location and a damage roll. Armour reduces damage and is location specific. Weapons do a set damage (0-8+) plus a die roll (1-4d6 depending upon success)
Damage (number) minus Armour (number) then results in an injury (or not if armour exceeds damage).
Injuries are minor (1), serious (2 or 3), grevious (4) the numbers are multiplied by 5 and used to modify combat skill percentages downwards. A fighter with a 70% sword skill who has taken four minor wounds is at -20, or 50%.
The maths is IMO no more complex than the feat/save modifiers in d20

If you want more information about HarnMaster visit www.Harnforum.com
And for a direct comparison between HarnMaster and d20 combat (the same combat run under both rules systems) check out the downloads section of www.lythia.com (look for HMC vs. d20 Combat – A Comparison).

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Unearthed Arcana also explains how to use the M&M system in D&D, though I haven't tested how this works out in practice.

 

[Terwox]

Unearthed Arcana also explains how to use the M&M system in D&D, though I haven't tested how this works out in practice.

It does? I remember a vitality and wound point system, but nothing that removed hit points entirely. Am I missing something?