non switchers: what can wotc do to win you back?

[El Mahdi]

• What can WotC do to get me to switch? - Nothing.

I won't switch to 4E simply because the system doesn't appeal to me. There's nothing WotC can do to persuade me as far as that is concerned. There's absolutely nothing wrong with 4E, and there are aspects of it I quite like (and have stolen for my own 3E games - ), but it's just not a game that, in it's entirety, is one I want to play. However, up until the pdf decision (the straw that broke this camels back), I did buy 4E products that I found useful. I cancelled my DDI subscription the day you pulled the pdf's, and I haven't bought a single WotC product since then (that includes Star Wars, Heroscape, etc. - anything produced by WotC).

• What can WotC do to win me back?

Well, I think the first part is: Can I be won back? The answer is, Yes.

Here's how: fix the things that made me leave in the first place. Surprisingly it's not 4E that drove me away. I buy stuff from all kinds of systems. Adventures are easily converted to any system, all that really matters is whether it has a good plot or hook. The system is completely interchangeable (IME). Campaign settings and all other "fluff" is also completely independent of system. I can easily seperate out incompatible mechanics. IMO the above covers about 75% of what is in any systems products, making them practically as useful to me as someone who does play 4E.

I don't need, nor do I want, WotC to publish new material for older editions. Other companies have picked up that mantle quite effectively, and quite honestly, are probably doing it much better that WotC could if they were splitting their focus between multiple editions.

I don't need, nor do I want, WotC to change their publishing model. Three and out is just fine with me for Campaign settings. Dragon content is more than adequate, and published adventures/Dungeon adventures are also good. I eventually purchased a DDI subscription after WotC finally (and grudginly, IMO) made the changes to the magazines that the customers (myself included) wanted. Again, I cancelled my DDI sub the day you pulled the pdf's.

I don't need, nor do I want, WotC to open 4E up to the OGL. Anything I like from 4E I just convert for use with 3E anyways. The GSL does nothing to prevent this, so therefore, 4E not being OGL matters absolutely not at all to me.

I don't need, nor do I want, WotC to publish 4E compatible variants. I honestly don't think it's feasable anyways. 4E just isn't as condusive to such endeavors as other editions are. IMO this would just be a waste of time. Besides, if it could be effectively done, this is better left in the arena of 3pp's.

I don't need WotC to, nor care if they do, publish a 4.5E or even a 5E. If the things I list below are done, I'll buy any product you make, regardless of system, if I find it useful or interesting to me or my game - period.

I don't need WotC to publish or update any campaign settings in order to win me back. But, if you do the things listed below, I'd more than likely buy any settings you do publish or update. I'm just that way.



So, I think in order to understand how to win me back, they need to first understand how they lost me.

They lost me through abysmal customer and public relations.

You can't tell your fans/customers: "Trust us. We know better what you want, and you don't really want what you are asking for." (*paraphrased ala the requests for a campaign overview of the Scales of War AP and other issues concerning Dragon, Dungeon, and DDI in general.)

You can't promise products and features 6 months to a year prior to the release of the products, and then not deliver them (and still haven't delivered them over a year after the release date). I know they changed their focus on DDI products based on polls taken at WotC website. But, those polls came after the majority of their customer relations debacles, and after they had already lost customers. The majority of the people taking those polls are people who had remained as WotC customers, not the people who they had lost. Get enough people to leave, and those remaining will probably agree with most anything you do (since they already agreed with you in the first place).

And finally, the kicker for me: They stopped selling pdf's of their products. The only persons hurt by this were legitimite and honest customers. It does not help WotC (there's no way anyone can honestly say WotC saved more revenue by not selling pdf's than what they lost - or percieved as lost - through piracy). It does not hurt pirates. It only hurts customers. Hurting your customers is just plain stupid. There's no avoiding that.


So, what does WotC need to do?




This:

1. Make a public statement saying they've made major mistakes since the moment 4E was released. Mistakes in how they managed their products (DDI), and especially in how they have treated their customers/fans. They need to apologize for this and make a commitment to fixing those problems and not repeating them. And this statement needs to come from someone high up in the chain. Preferably, the president/CEO/guy-in-charge of WotC. Do not delegate this to Scott again. Scott did not make these mistakes, stop making him try to fix them.
2. Get your collective Public Relations crap together. Seriously look at your behavior and interaction with your customers/fans over the last year, and then seriously change your attitude. If your company vision or mission statement doesn't first and foremost say: "The Customer is ALWAYS Right!", then correct it post haste.
3. Make a plan ... and publicly release said plan ... with a timeline, of how and when you will be finishing and releasing the Character Visualizer, the Dungeon Creator, and the Virtual Game Table. Do this Yesterday.
4. Make pdf's available again on RPGNow and Paizo IMMEDIATELY! It makes absolutely no sense to not sell these even if they are being pirated. Keep working on another way to sell them securely, but in the meantime, make them available immediately! At the very least, make older edition material available again. The pdf's have been available for years. It cost you virtually nothing to keep these available. Anyone who is willing to aquire these by illegitimate means, ALREADY HAS! The only people hurt by this are fans of older editions who want to aquire them legally. If one of the reasons they were removed was to eliminate competition with 4E from older edtion products (although I don't think this is the case), I can't imagine you've gained any customers for 4E by doing this. In my case, you lost a customer.
5. Make the above changes and post them on your website and every major D&D/RPG fansite, with the aforementioned apology, so that every customer you lost can see it, and you may stand a decent chance of getting them back. I know if the above happened, I would come back. I'd re-subscribe to DDI the very same day, and I'd once again purchase 4E products. And please do all of this before the Dragonlance campaign setting comes out next year. I SO want to see an updated Dragonlance. But, I will continue to not buy any WotC products until the above happens. If it doesn't, then so be it - It was nice knowing you WotC.

 

[BryonD]

Publish a game that interests me.

That sums it up.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

My Context might be different from others:
- I have an ongoing DDI subscription which for the moment I am keeping, even though I don't use it as much as I would like.
- I will still play 4E (as our group has a campaign going using this ruleset)
- I might still purchase the odd 4E book if it is interesting.

However:
- I have several subscriptions with Paizo and this is where the majority of my gaming dollar is currently going.

As such, how would WotC get back the majority of my gaming dollar back:
- Produce 5E which will hopefully be a more complex/richer/varied version of the game than 4E which overstreamlined the base ruleset for me.
- Paizo would have to start producing crap, and their customer service would have to fall away (neither of which I can see happening in the foreseeable future).

And so, WotC will most likely continue to get some of my gaming dollar, but nowhere near the majority of it.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[carmachu]

Yeah I know, this is so last year.

Anyway, poll coming up, not an edition war thread, blah blah blah

EDIT: For those asking, by "non switchers" I meant "not switching to 4e".
Of course every opinion is welcome.

And by "winning you back" I meant as a customer. I was mostly thinking of D&D (any edition) but I guess other wotc products are also relevant.

Nothing.

4e isnt for me(putting it mildly, but not wanting to start flames), GSL sucks, and frankly they have NOTHING to offer me.

between 3.5/ptolus and pathfinder, I have everything I need. Unless they drop 4e completely and come back to something thats reconizable to its forebearers similar to pathfinder, never coming back, never buying anything from them.

 

[kitsune9]

Publish a game that interests me.

Yeah, I think that would kind of cool if maybe WotC put out a different game. What if they dug up Top Secret or Star Frontiers and updated them with new rules?

Or how about something brand new altogether?

I really don't see WotC doing that, but I wonder if they had any interest in maybe doing something like that.

 

[Set]

Publish a game that interests me.

I feel like such a schmoe for just saying 'this' but he beat me to it.

An 'apology' means bupkiss to me. Make stuff I want, and I'll buy it.

 

[TheYeti1775]

Win me back, that's a tough one.

I borrowed the THREE CORE books from a friend, it didn't really appeal to me.

The everything core is kind of a turn off for me much like a unibrow.
So 4E itself (as a system) isn't what I want.
I'll probably browse his Darksun copy when he gets it as well just for the 'fluff' out of it and how they changed some things. So making setting like that would at least get me as a 'browser'.

As folks have said PDFs for older editions would help, but really if you make available the 4E ones as affordable ones (not full price) I might pick up some settings for fluff.
But really I don't have a real incentive in that either. It's amazingly easy to find a pirated copy of what they don't provide anymore.

Mini's, I buy them occassionally. But again the collectiblity nature of them makes me actually not buy as many.

The DDI & Computer Tools itself interests me. As was mentioned, make past editions 1e/2e/3e/3.5e options within them. I would probably subscribe to it, which in turn might make me more willing to try out 4e mechanics as I read Dragon/Dungeon Articles about it. Even when I took a several year long break from gaming I maintained either a Subscription or picked it at the store every issue. Carrot me in, perhaps I'll eat the limas as well.

I'm not so worried about the OGL or GSL or whatever its called now, I'm not a publisher of games. But in saying that, making it easier for a 3rd party to make compatible products like the OGL would seem in my mind to be good thing. Now licensing out old settings for use with previous editions would peek up my interests a lot.
Use your 3 & out model than license it out for a 3rd party to support in whatever version they think they can make money in.

Public Relations and Customer Service, except for the few times someone like Scott could come here and make a statement of about his Non-Disclosure Statement or only give a general (many times a skirt the issue) answer there really hasn't been.


But for me, I would be a hard sale on getting me back as 4E and WotC is now.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Unless WotC changes (back. . .?) significantly as a company, in various ways, then there is simply nothing they can do.

Considering how likely that is to happen, I'd say 'nothing can bring you back at this point' covers it for me, just fine.

 

[Remathilis]

Nothing that I can think of.

It isn't that I'm angry with Wizards or am being vindictive, it is just that they are now producing a game that I do not find as enjoyable as 3.5/Pathfinder. I also am not a fan of subscription based services. I may still buy a pack of minis every year or so, but aside from that I do not see any of my money going to them.

Sigh. Count me in here as well.

I liked a lot of WotC's ideas, but 4e fell flat for us. Pathfinder was excepted with enthusiasm, 4e with guarded optimism that turned to banality to outright hatred for some of my group. Overall, we tried, it didn't work for us.

Minis and dungeons tiles are pretty much the extent of my WotC purchases these days.

 

[freyar]

If this were about switching to 4e, I'd have said "nothing." I have no incentive to switch -- haven't gotten enough game use out of my 3.5 stuff, and now Pathfinder is keeping those viable for the reasonable future.

But, for getting my gaming dollar, they could release old edition stuff as PDFs. So I chose those two options.

I picked OGL also, not because that by itself would necessarily get my money, but it would make me feel much better disposed toward WotC as a company.