D&D (2024) Not a fan of the new Eldritch Knight

[pukunui]

Is that still the case in 2024?

Shield now also has a verbal component but otherwise it’s all exactly the same as before.

 

[pukunui]

Reading the free rules, it's not entirely clear:

It doesn't actually specify the hand must be empty, nor is there anything about using a spellcasting focus for somatic components.

The War Caster feat still provides the benefit of being able to perform somatic components while holding weapons and/or a shield in your hands.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Is that still the case in 2024?

Has it changed?

I always thought that they should allow somatic with a shield but you don't benefit from the shield in the round you cast the spell...but that's a total aside.

 

[pukunui]

Has it changed?

I always thought that they should allow somatic with a shield but you don't benefit from the shield in the round you cast the spell...but that's a total aside.

For the 2014 rules, they did allow clerics and paladins to perform somatic components while holding a shield as long as it had their holy symbol on it. This was never explicitly stated in the PHB but rather something allowed via Sage Advice. Everyone else still had to take War Caster.

As far as I can tell, it’s still the case. Otherwise the third benefit of the 2024 War Caster feat is vestigial.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

For the 2014 rules, they did allow clerics and paladins to perform somatic components while holding a shield as long as it had their holy symbol on it. This was never explicitly stated in the PHB but rather something allowed via Sage Advice. Everyone else still had to take War Caster.

As far as I can tell, it’s still the case. Otherwise the third benefit of the 2024 War Caster feat is vestigial.

Which is funny because a holy symbol only replaces the Material component and not the Somatic....unless I'm mistaken, a holy symbol acts the same way as an arcane focus?

So, by that logic, the staff should also work as an arcane focus that replaces somatic

 

[Tawek21]

I've been working on an EK for a heist game. We're doing a weekend of D&D among high school friends where we play for 18 hours a day for an entire weekend. Our characters are starting at 4th and I don't foresee us going much past 6th but, in any case, I get to test out the class.

As much as I tried to go with an INT based EK, we don't have a face and I didn't want to dump dex so, in the end, my Int just kept getting lower and lower. Not wanting to dump anything, I had all 'dump stats' (STR, INT, WIS) at 10. DEX, CON at 14(after stat boosts) and Cha at 18. I was influenced by @ECMO3 saying they didn't want to be forced into one weapon type so, eventually, dex went down and INT went Waaay down. str went up. This is what I ended up with:

base stats:
S 13(14); D 12; C14; I 8; W10; C 15(18)

Human: magic initiate, (charisma druid) - Shillelagh, Starry Wisp(ranged cantrip - this looks pretty good instead of True Strike), Healing word (I really waffled on a combat spell but ice knife is kind of crap and thunderwave is too loud in most situations but in a non-heist game, Thunderwave is probably the way to go)

Origin: Noble (+2 cha, +1 STR) stealth, skilled feat for more sneaky stuff

Lvl 4 Fae-touched +1 CHA, Misty step, Hex

EK spells: find familiar, and the usual stuff like shield etc...booming blade(I guess this makes lots of noise too so I dunno but GFB is kind of not good until 5th)

You could dump Wis too to push S to 15 and, take polarm master at 6th to boost to 16 Str. Or push Dex to 14. But was unwilling to push WIS that low.

Tactics: not sure yet. I took dueling with a staff(topple) and shield to be tanky. Could go heavy club and great weapon fighting and take booming blade and push to push enemies back and force them to move. Or two weapon fighting with Dagger (nick). Hopefully I'll get a chance to try all three.

Thoughts? comments?

Edit: with the new rules, it's pretty easy to make an INT maxed PC and start with 18 int. It just doesn't synergize well with skills or any other part of the game. Unless you are going as a sage with maxed arcana, History, religion - like, the typical smarty-pants But then you have to dump wisdom or charisma.

Sounds like you have a fantastic weekend coming up.

Personally, if I were Charisma based, I'm not sure I'd go EK. With you current build, the only use I can see of your charisma spell DC is starry wisp, which seems a bit of a waste.

I think I'd go level 1 fighter, and the rest warlock, with 17 charisma, at least 14 dex and medium armour. (Scale+dex is as good as chainmail, though if you want to be sneaky for your heist, you may want to go chain shirt+dex - unless your table allows you a breastplate)
A background of charlatan would let you raise charisma, con and/or dex, and give you skilled and deception, sleight of hand and forgery.

Shillelagh is tempting. At level 5 your one-handed club or staff is doing d10+char bonus.
I think I'd probably go two weapon fighting with hex. This means you don't get charisma to 18, but with a club and scimitar (with nick), you could go Duel Wielder for three attacks at level 5, and four at level 6. If you add hex, that could be a lot of damage.
(If you want to go staff and shield, you may want to double check with your DM about restrictions on casting shillelagh with a shield)

One intriguing option with 2024 warlock is the Lessons of the First Ones invocation. That means you can get your origin feats from invocations, which gives you the option of a race other than human. At level 3 warlock, you'll have three invocations. With one taken for pact of the blade, you can choose two extra origin feats. But I really think you'll want mask of many faces to go with your face skills for the heist. At level 5 warlock, you have five invocations. You need one for Thirsting Blade, but you will have another one available.

For a heist game, lots of fun race options: Halfling are small and lucky. Dwarf has tremorsense to spot the guards. Each of the elves has a good level 2 spell at level 5 - pass without trace, darkness and misty step (with high elf being able to choose their wizard cantrip). Infernal Tiefling has darkness. Gnomes have clockworks. Aasimar can fly for one minute.

Just my thoughts. I'm sure you'll have fun with a char based EK if you go for that instead.
Best of luck.

 

[pukunui]

Which is funny because a holy symbol only replaces the Material component and not the Somatic....unless I'm mistaken, a holy symbol acts the same way as an arcane focus?

So, by that logic, the staff should also work as an arcane focus that replaces somatic

I think it was just meant to be a workaround so War Caster didn’t become a feat tax for clerics and paladins. But anyway, that was a specific exception to the general rule.

By RAW, if you’re wielding a weapon in one hand and a physical shield in the other, then you need that third bennie from War Caster if you want to cast spells like shield and absorb elements.

(If you want to go staff and shield, you may want to double check with your DM about restrictions on casting shillelagh with a shield)

Shillelagh is fine because it has both a somatic and a material component.

On that note, though, the 2024 version of Shillelagh can only be used on a club or a quarterstaff. A regular arcane focus staff wouldn’t qualify, but luckily a quarterstaff can be used as an arcane focus!

 

[Tawek21]

I have no idea what’s in the current version. It was available when I was making the character on D&D beyond. Do you have another suggestion? Honestly I’ve never seen it as being that great because of the whole needing to move thing but lots of people rave about it

I expect your table will allow Booming Blade.

Booming blade is not in the 2024 players handbook but is in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. Your DndBeyond may have both.

I believe what WotC have suggested is that old content is allowed with 2024 rules, as long as 2024 rules don't supercede them.

It's up to your table. If some players only have the 2024 book, some DMs may restrict everyone to that book. But I think that'll be the rare exception.

 

[Tawek21]

On that note, though, the 2024 version of Shillelagh can only be used on a club or a quarterstaff. A regular arcane focus staff wouldn’t qualify, but luckily a quarterstaff can be used as an arcane focus!

Treantmonk argues that, because Shillelagh is a druid spell, you'd need the druid class to be able to use a druid spell focus staff (which is different from an arcane focus staff).

Lots of different opinions on this. Some think that if you cast wizard spells, and make a spell from a
a feat into an int-based spell, that spell becomes a wizard spell, and so can be used with an arcane focus.

Personally, I prefer the more lenient interpretation. But always worth checking with the DM beforehand.

 

[pukunui]

Treantmonk argues that, because Shillelagh is a druid spell, you'd need the druid class to be able to use a druid spell focus staff (which is different from an arcane focus staff).

Lots of different opinions on this. Some think that if you cast wizard spells, and make a spell from a
a feat into an int-based spell, that spell becomes a wizard spell, and so can be used with an arcane focus.

Personally, I prefer the more lenient interpretation. But always worth checking with the DM beforehand.

I get that. Luckily the point is moot here because a quarterstaff can also be used as a druidic focus!