D&D (2024) Not a fan of the new Eldritch Knight

[ECMO3]

You cannot add your charisma bonus twice. “Add your charisma bonus” is the same thing repeated, like “die your hair blue”. You have blue hair, not double blue hair.

The general consensus is you can add your Charisma bonus twice, moreover even if you can't add your Charisma bonus twice, but any character with 2 levels of Warlock can certainly add your Charisma bonus and another ability bonus.

This would require boosting two stats but is certainly doable in multiple ways, especially on a Fighter with an extra ASI.

At 14th level (Warlock 2-Fighter 2) with Shilleleagh, nick and Hex, you would still be getting 4 attacks, one of them a truestrike doing 3d12+7d6+25 and adding sap, push and slow on to 3 of those attacks, and that is not even using your origin feat.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The general consensus is you can add your Charisma bonus twice, moreover even if you can't add your Charisma bonus twice, but any character with 2 levels of Warlock can certainly add your Charisma bonus and another ability bonus (Intelligence or Wisdom).

This would require boosting two stats but is certainly doable in multiple ways.

Appeal to general stupidity is not a strong argument. They do not stack for the same reason that finesse weapons do not stack dexterity and strength bonuses, and Mage Armor does not stack with full plate. Add ability score bonus is a one time thing, if you have multiple options only the highest one applies.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Further up the thread, someone was lamenting the thought that EKs might be forced to get War Caster. In my opinion, this would be no great sacrifice.

The ability to cast a spell at someone when they provoke an opportunity attack could be incredibly useful for an EK that wants to tank (for example, you could take them out of the fight with a Tasha's Hideous Laughter).

Having advantage on Con saving throws (as well as proficiency) means our Blade Ward will almost never be broken (or Blur or whatever).

And if you want to use a shield and won't be an int build with shillelagh staff and shield, then being able to cast spells that need somantic but don't need material components (like the shield spell) is fantastic.

You can also use it to raise your casting stat by 1.

There are lots of advantages for taking War Caster, I’m not denying that.

The issue is that the main ‘advantage’ is it’s necessary to use your basic class features. So, even if you don’t care to take it for all its other advantages, you’re still forced to take it.

 

[mellored]

Appeal to general stupidity is not a strong argument. They do not stack for the same reason that finesse weapons do not stack dexterity and strength bonuses, and Mage Armor does not stack with full plate.

Finesse says to "choice of your Strength or Dexterity"

AC says "you choose which calculation to use; you can’t use more than one".

Add ability score bonus is a one time thing, if you have multiple options only the highest one applies.

By that logic, sneak attack doesn't stack with a d6 weapon doesn't do anything because you already added a d6?
And a paladin with a 1d8 weapon + 1d8 smite + 1d8 improved smite = 1d8.

Or you just add the numbers, like it says.

 

[Zardnaar]

Appeal to general stupidity is not a strong argument. They do not stack for the same reason that finesse weapons do not stack dexterity and strength bonuses, and Mage Armor does not stack with full plate. Add ability score bonus is a one time thing, if you have multiple options only the highest one applies.

They're different effects with different triggers. Shillagh and true strike don't stack as they're same effect. Well the d8,d10,d12 part stacks.

Add in Agonizing Blast though and level 6 celestial warlock and the damage effect stacks.

Similar to say green flame blades rider effect and an arcane clerics potent spellcasting ability.

 

[Zardnaar]

There are lots of advantages for taking War Caster, I’m not denying that.

The issue is that the main ‘advantage’ is it’s necessary to use your basic class features. So, even if you don’t care to take it for all its other advantages, you’re still forced to take it.

In taking it anyway tbh. It's not just shillelagh you need to for.

 

[clearstream]

Finesse says to "choice of your Strength or Dexterity"

AC says "you choose which calculation to use; you can’t use more than one".

By that logic, sneak attack doesn't stack with a d6 weapon doesn't do anything because you already added a d6?
And a paladin with a 1d8 weapon + 1d8 smite + 1d8 improved smite = 1d8.

Or you just add the numbers, like it says.

Both give you the option to use your spellcasting ability in place of strength or dexterity, shillelagh makes the weapon damage die a d8, and each adds a choice of damage type.

It seems clear that the choice of ability modifier won't stack. The spells are just letting me choose which one to "use". Were the wording "add" that'd be different.

Just as the damage type can't be force plus radiant: it's force or radiant or bludgeoning.

 

[ECMO3]

Appeal to general stupidity is not a strong argument. They do not stack for the same reason that finesse weapons do not stack dexterity and strength bonuses, and Mage Armor does not stack with full plate. Add ability score bonus is a one time thing, if you have multiple options only the highest one applies.

It is nothing like those things.

You use dexterity instead of strength when you wield Finesse weapons. You do NOT use Charisma "instead of" your casting stat when you have Agonizing blast, you add Charisma bonus when you roll damage. Two different things

Full Plate is not an armor in 5E, but Mage Armor does not work if the target dons ANY armor. RAW it is impossible to wear ANY armor and have Mage Armor. Mage Armor does stack with things like bracers of defense and ring of protection. Moreover in a similar fashion to this, if you use Mage Armor you add your dexterity, then if you are a Bladesinger and go into Bladesong you add your Intelligence on top of your dexterity - i.e. The ability score bonuses from two sources DO stack with Mage Armor!

 

[ECMO3]

Both give you the option to use your spellcasting ability in place of strength or dexterity, shillelagh makes the weapon damage die a d8, and each adds a choice of damage type.

It seems clear that the choice of ability modifier won't stack. The spells are just letting me choose which one to "use". Were the wording "add" that'd be different.

Agonizing Blast does not give a choice it adds Charisma to the damage, and it adds to the damage rolled regardless of what ability score you used to cast the Cantrip (or if you even used no ability score at all).

 

[Chaosmancer]

You're missing this part of spellcasting under sorcerer:



Subclass spells count as sorcerer spells. This is the same language used for bards, clerics, druids, paladins, rangers, sorcerers, warlocks, and wizards. Seems intentional. ;-)

I did miss that. I would note however that this language would be utterly bizarre to see on a subclass for a class that doesn't get spells. No fighter feature gives you spells that aren't on the fighter spell list... because there is no fighter spell list.

And this level of high-detail nuance and caring about the precise origin of your spells seems way more fiddly than the game is usually presented.