D&D 5E (2024) Not a fan of the new Eldritch Knight

[mellored]

Your extra cantrip can be blade ward, mold earth, or minor illusion for obfuscation.

But I more think this is the case of Valor+EB (+Conjure Minor Elemental) being too strong

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Eldritch Blast really should scale based on Warlock levels, huh. It's like it's a class feature or something.

 

[Steampunkette]

The biggest issue I've seen with gish is you do one or the other, 9 times out of 10.

A Fighter/Mage in AD&D 2e swings a sword -or- casts a spell.

3e kinda played with the Swordsage and others basically doing "Sword Magic" but it was 4e's "Sword Mage" that really crystallized that problem for me. Because they could do both at the same time.

5e's Eldritch Knight and Bladesinger are both very basic and weak imitations of the Sword Mage. They focus on doing one or the other, for the most part, and one option really well.

Even Pathfinder's Magus is all about "Take Spell Put In Sword!" instead of Sword and Spell.

At least the Knight's War Magic allows them to do both in the same turn so long as you wait 'til level 7.

There's gotta be a better answer... fortunately I've found one or two along the way. One of them in this thread. So yaaaaay! Gonna make some great 3rd party content!

 

[CreamCloud0]

even if you technically put more levels into it, from what you say in the OP it really feels more like you were using EK as a supplement to your choice of CHA caster's martial capability rather than actually playing the EK for what it was, just look at how you're dumping INT in favour of CHA for example.

 

[Blue]

Overall I am pretty happy with the 2024 subclasses, but EK is an exception to this. I hate it.

Eldritch Knight was my favorite fighter subclass by far and it was the fighter I played the most with 2014 rules. Usually I dumped Intelligence, maxed Charisma and multiclassed with a Bard, Sorcerer or Warlock, usually with a 1-4 level dip in one of those.

Okay, a choice, but not one required by the choice of subclass.

When played that way in 2024 the class was awesome, Warmagic was not as effective as the Bladesinger extra attack but it was pretty darn fun. On the new EK, Warmagic gets a slight improvement and then a big nerf. It works with the attack action, not requiring an extra action, but it also only works with your Wizard spells. This means Eldritch Blast is not even usable with it and it means if you want to use it in combat you really need to have a good Intelligence, when most fighters dump intelligence.

Okay, so they made it so that you couldn't cherry pick it's features for other types of spellcasters. In general, that's a fantastic move and I approve.

"Most fighters dump intelligence" is not really germane to the conversation. First, we're not talking about most fighters, we're talking about about a fighter subclass that specifically uses Int. Second, you are putting at least a 13 into CHR to allow multiclassing, so it seems it's perfectly viable to put points into it.

I have been trying to put together a good EK build and I can't figure one that is going to work for me. I am having trouble figuring why I would ever play an Eldritch Knight when a Valor Bard is available.

Because they are very different classes, doing different things? One is a full caster with some martial ability but not enough to keep up with dedicated martial characters, and the other is a full martial on a resilient chassis with some minor casting.

I understand that you haven't actually played your "favorite fighter subclass" ever -- you've just used it to pick up features for other casters. But if you play it, you would be able to understand how it differs from a valor bard. That you can't understand it is why you don't value the class and subclass, and why you are saying that you hate it -- not because of what it does, but because it actually enforces staying on theme and that's never what you did with it.

 

[bedir than]

I don't want to play a high intelligence Fighter, nor a Fighter-Wizard. Neither of those interest me.

Then don't play an Eldritch Knight, which is by design those elements.
This isn't a flaw in the EK.
It's like saying "The rogue is broken because it assumes a high dex skilled character that I don't want to play."

Play the character you want, not something you are shoe-horning onto mechanics

 

[ECMO3]

Then don't play an Eldritch Knight, which is by design those elements.
This isn't a flaw in the EK.
It's like saying "The rogue is broken because it assumes a high dex skilled character that I don't want to play."

No it is like saying I don't want to play a low Intelligence Arcane Trickster .... a subclass which I also play a lot, also always dump Intelligence, and which is not screwed up in a similar fashion by the 2024 rules.

Intelligence is not a core ability of a Fighter, and playing a low dex, single-classed Rogue is quite viable, both as an Arcane Trickster with high Intelligence and as any of the other subclasses in a melee-oriented fashion.

Play the character you want, not something you are shoe-horning onto mechanics

I think the real problem is this makes the entire Fighter class less attractive for me. It is not like what I was doing is broken, it is not even close to top tier in terms of character power and while it may be a more generally optimized Eldritch Knight fighter when it comes to being a caster, it is not an optimized character overall nor even an optimized Gish.

 

[ECMO3]

Eldritch Blast really should scale based on Warlock levels, huh. It's like it's a class feature or something.

I would be fine with that, but it would not change the basic problem with the new EK. You still would not be able to use War Magic with other class Cantrips, including primarily True Strike.

 

[ECMO3]

Second, you are putting at least a 13 into CHR to allow multiclassing, so it seems it's perfectly viable to put points into it.

I am usually maxing Charisma and starting with between a 16 and 20. It is my highest stat. Strength is my second highest typically.

I understand that you haven't actually played your "favorite fighter subclass" ever -- you've just used it to pick up features for other casters.

Not just other casters, from feats and species as well.

But if you play it, you would be able to understand how it differs from a valor bard. That you can't understand it is why you don't value the class and subclass, and why you are saying that you hate it

I can't see myself having fun playing a Fighter with a high Intelligence and lower Charisma and baring 3 rolls with a natural 14+ (and one with 16+) I need to do that to make it work thematically and mechanically.

Even if I dump both Constitution and Wisdom, I am still going to be hard pressed to get the Intelligence, Strength and Charisma to make it work.

 

[Scribe]

Even if I dump both Constitution and Wisdom, I am still going to be hard pressed to get the Intelligence, Strength and Charisma to make it work.

In a scenario where you scale with Str/Int, why are you still pumping Cha?