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D&D 4E Not going to 4e

Pinotage

Explorer
Whisperfoot said:
Sure, they're entitled to do that if they want, and it will definitely prevent people from using their old 3.x books in 4.0, but it also opens up a brand new can of worms where we'll be dealing with unfamiliar rules, broken and unbalanced mechanics, and flavor changes that seem to make very little sense - at least from the amount of information they've given us so far.

That's a very good point, and one of my main concerns. 3.5e was a vast improvments on 3e. While it didn't fix everything, it made a lot more sense and had a lot less flaws than 3e did. With 4e, they're starting from scratch trying to fix 3.5e, but in the end while they may fix some of the problems with 3.5e, 4e is going to be so different it will have a bucketload of its own problems. It's like reinventing the wheel. Broken, unbalanced stuff is going to be all over 4e, there's no doubt about it. I understand the need for a 4e, but I just don't understand why they have to throw the old system out and bring in something new that's going to have all new problems. Seems like we're just starting all over again with trying to get a good D&D system (though that's not saying what we've got is bad).

Pinotage
 

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DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
Whisperfoot said:
Sorry if I sound like I'm ranting...

Lots of people have expressed the same thoughts here and elsewhere. While I do believe most D&D players will go 4E, there will be many, many who do not. And I believe the RPG schism brought on by 2E will re-emerge.
 



Frost

First Post
I will not be switching. Initially, it was simply because I have tons of 3.x material and didn't see a need to switch. I'm knee-deep in a Rappan Athurk Reloaded campaign and switching would be more trouble than it is worth. I don't fault WotC for releasing another edition. They are a business, after all, and need to make cash. To me, getting angry at WotC for putting out another edition is like getting upset at Sony for making the Playstation 3 when the Playstation 2 still works fine.

However, the more I read about 4e, the more I realize I wouldn't switch regardless. To me, the game isn't simply "evolving" as that weird guy in the presentation intro video promised. It's changing pell-mell into another game.
 
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Dristram

First Post
Frost said:
To me, the game isn't simply "evolving" as that weird guy in the presentation intro video promised. It's changing pell-mell into another game.
And one they get to call Dungeons & Dragons. I bet the boys of Kenzer&Co., Troll Lord Games, Mongoose, Green Ronin, and any other game publisher that's created a fantasy RPG wish they could call their's Dungeons & Dragons. Name recognition is king baby! New D&D players raised on 4e will have no idea they're not actually playing the cool D&D game they heard about from the 80's.
 

Dristram said:
And one they get to call Dungeons & Dragons. I bet the boys of Kenzer&Co., Troll Lord Games, Mongoose, Green Ronin, and any other game publisher that's created a fantasy RPG wish they could call their's Dungeons & Dragons. Name recognition is king baby! New D&D players raised on 4e will have no idea they're not actually playing the cool D&D game they heard about from the 80's.
IMO: New D&D players are a good thing no matter what game or edition they're playing.
 


ajanders

Explorer
Dristram said:
And one they get to call Dungeons & Dragons. I bet the boys of Kenzer&Co., Troll Lord Games, Mongoose, Green Ronin, and any other game publisher that's created a fantasy RPG wish they could call their's Dungeons & Dragons. Name recognition is king baby! New D&D players raised on 4e will have no idea they're not actually playing the cool D&D game they heard about from the 80's.

In fairness, neither do many of the people on this board raised in 3.0 or 3.5.

If you want to play the "cool D&D game you heard about from the 80's" you want to be in OSRIC.
Me, I'm happy with most of 3.5: add in the reserve feats and the tactical feats and I can keep both spellcasters and fighters very happy and doing very cool things.
 

The Little Raven

First Post
Dristram said:
New D&D players raised on 4e will have no idea they're not actually playing the cool D&D game they heard about from the 80's.

And if they do find that 1980s game, they'll learn to avoid it because of players like you that will insult their taste because it's different. Way to grow the fanbase!
 

Mourn said:
And if they do find that 1980s game, they'll learn to avoid it because of players like you that will insult their taste because it's different. Way to grow the fanbase!
I didn't see anything at all insulting in Dristram's post.

For anybody just joining the hobby now, 4E is most clearly NOT "the cool D&D game they heard about from the 80's." It's a very different game, and it is no insult to point that out.

Whether or not 4E is a cool game in its own right is an entirely separate issue. Dristram wasn't saying 4E wasn't a cool game.
 

epochrpg

Explorer
Sunderstone said:
Passing on 4E, so is my group. It isnt D&D to us, and imho they really need to rename the game to Warlocks & Warlords or something.

We are happy with 3.5 for the most part. Yes, some rules could use streamlining but we kind of got used to it already and it seems to work fine for us. Im thankful for some great stuff from Necromancer and Paizo. My group should be fine for the next decade or so anyway.


Hopefully 5th edition comes fast with a return to what D&D was. WotC seems to have forgotten.

Warlocks & Warlords! LOL! :D
 

The_Gneech

First Post
FWIW, the reason D&D was cool in the '80s (and the '70s even moreso) was because there was nothing else like it. These days "fantasy roleplaying" is an old idea.

Same way Star Wars rocked the world in 1977 ... but looks a bit rickety and almost stodgy today.

It ain't just the edition -- it's a different world now.

-The Gneech :cool:
 

ajanders

Explorer
Brother MacLaren said:
I didn't see anything at all insulting in Dristram's post.

Then you are an admirably tolerant person and a model to be emulated.

I'm not thrilled about all the changes in 4e: I'm turning down games now because I don't have the energy or funds to purchase and learn entirely new systems.
I'd rather, ironically, have seen D&D 3.75: at least this way I wouldn't need to invest so much time.
 

Darrell

First Post
Mourn said:
And if they do find that 1980s game, they'll learn to avoid it because of players like you that will insult their taste because it's different. Way to grow the fanbase!

Linguistic Nitpick: You don't "grow" the fanbase (you also don't "grow" a business), you build it.

That, I believe, is where WotC is losing its path. Building means starting from a foundation and building upon it. The process of alienating a fair portion of the existing player base, while simultaneously trying to attract new players, is fundamentally flawed. Most of the younger players I've introduced to D&D have ONLY tried a PnP game because I talked them into it. Left to their own devices, they would probably all be playing MMORPGs right now. They wouldn't have given Dungeons & Dragons a second look. Name recognition notwithstanding, D&D isn't "cool." Where, exactly, does the crew at WotC think these 'new players' are going to come from, if older players aren't there to point the way?

To paraphrase: 'Way to [build] the fanbase.' Keep chipping away at that foundation, and you'll eventually bring the whole thing down.

Currently, I DM 4 groups of players--2 groups of 4 players each, one of 3 players, and one of eight players. That's 19 people in all...20 if you count me. I DM for all of these groups because no one else apparently wants to be a DM around here. Come next June, guess how many of 'em are going to be buying 4e? NONE. Why? Because I'm not buying 4e. They want to be in a game I run, and I run under 3.x/d20 or a Basic D&D/d20 hybrid cobbled together from various sources.

Ironically enough, I was actually "on the fence" about 4e until the latest round of changes was announced. Changes to the cosmology I could handle, because we rarely, if ever, use extraplanar material in our games. Thematic changes to the core game, however (the way magic works, the races existing in the world, etc.), change the entire way the 'world' works for the players, and I simply won't allow WotC to do that to our games. Therefore, 4e is (figuratively) dead to me.

Now, I don't want to give the impression that I'm not a WotC customer; I most assuredly am...primarily because I like the minis. I'll keep on buying D&D minis as long as they keep making them; but I won't be using 'em to play 4e.


Regards,
Darrell King
 
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redmagerush

First Post
I'll probably play 4e because what I've seen about it so far makes it seem like a fun RPG to me.

Ironically, a fun RPG to me is something that DnD has never been before.
 

Dristram said:
And one they get to call Dungeons & Dragons. I bet the boys of Kenzer&Co., Troll Lord Games, Mongoose, Green Ronin, and any other game publisher that's created a fantasy RPG wish they could call their's Dungeons & Dragons. Name recognition is king baby! New D&D players raised on 4e will have no idea they're not actually playing the cool D&D game they heard about from the 80's.

You know what - you're right. 4E isn't the cool D&D game from the 80's. And neither is 3rd Edition. Just ask some of the guys who still play 1st Edition, they will tell you that the fancy schmancy game you play is not the real D&D (and should properply be called something else, like Feats & Prestigeclasses :D )
 

Shortman McLeod

First Post
Whisperfoot said:
Now it's very likely that I'll soon become akin to Diaglo, except with 3rd edition. Turn down your music. Get off my lawn! Crazy kids.

D&D 3.5 (2003) is the one true game. all the other games are just pale imitations of the real thing.
 

Aris Dragonborn

First Post
I won't know if I won't be going to 4E until I get the core books in my hot little hands and take it for a test run, to see what it's got under the hood.

If it works for me, I'll most likely switch (easier and faster prep time? Sweet!)

If it doesn't work for me (and from what I've seen from the previews, it might not), then I'll either stick with 3E or try C&C or some other system.
 

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