D&D (2024) Not loving weapon mastery with beginners

[Piperken]

...They slowed things down slightly, but it was only two players and they knew what they were doing.

My new campaign at school has eight players, half of them brand new, three of whom have weapon mastery. And it is slowing combat down substantially...

One part of this that feels for the most part appears glossed over is that this is a table being run at a school.

School-run games notoriously can have other factors in play which crib peoples' experience beyond talk of whether 5e 2024's level of complexity is more or less, or aspects of players' capability in picking up the game, commonly:

• Time limit: sometimes, at most an hour for each session
• Sometimes, multiple tables: dependent on how many people signed up
• Likewise, party size: related to above (in this case, eight)
• Multiple DM's: if more than one DM is available, this assists with the party size issue; however:
• Having multiple tables often means using the same module, which then adds:
• The need to have tables progress at roughly the same pace (because, kids talk!)

 

[ART!]

Why are you tracking your player's masteries? That's their job!

Some weapon properties create conditions that the DM needs to remember.

On the other hand, combat maneuvers already do this, but at least those are just for the Battle Master subclass.

 

[Belen]

Why are you tracking your player's masteries? That's their job!

Agreed.

However, I have found that most players never learn their characters properly. They often do not even remember to level up until the session starts. They expect the DM to entertain them and just show up to play.

It is rare to find players that really engage.

I understand Clint’s pain. The combat slow down and I’ll bet that part of it is that he had more to manage because the players are not managing it on their end.

 

[Will Brandiman]

Some weapon properties create conditions that the DM needs to remember.

On the other hand, combat maneuvers already do this, but at least those are just for the Battle Master subclass.

Sap and Slow are the only ones that the DM really needs to even think about, and the players should take responsibility for reminding the DM of those conditions.

 

[ART!]

Sap and Slow are the only ones that the DM really needs to even think about, and the players should take responsibility for reminding the DM of those conditions.

They should remind the DM...every turn?...that enemy X is slowed or sapped?

No - that's something the DM needs to track/mark/whatever once it happens.

 

[Belen]

They should remind the DM...every turn?...that enemy X is slowed or sapped?

No - that's something the DM needs to track/mark/whatever once it happens.

Thanks for helping me make my point.

The DM is forced to remember all of it and track it.

Most players will think that managing all aspects of the combat is on the DM, even their own effects.

 

[Guest 7037866]

However, I have found that most players never learn their characters properly. They often do not even remember to level up until the session starts. They expect the DM to entertain them and just show up to play.

It is rare to find players that really engage.

This is the case with my one player. He leaves his stuff here (where we play) instead of taking it with him. He never does anything for his character outside of playing time--which is annoying and feels like he is unprepared to play.

He has been playing for about two years now, still messes things up, etc. at times.

Now, my other two players are on the ball. They level up before the game, know all there stuff, etc. If there is a rule or feature that we have to look up to clarify, they make note of the result so we won't have to look it up again.

So example, the "Graze" property. A player with this cannot fail to deal damage with that weapon (which I find OFFENSIVE to game design completely!!! ) so should just tell me "I hit for X damage" or "I miss for Y damage". If they tell me they miss, I shouldn't have to wait for them to tell me how much "ability damage" they still do.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Ultimately the issue is that complexity which used to be opt-in is now baseline.

You used to be able to opt in to having a harder character by either picking a spellcaster, taking feats, or a taking complex martial subclass. Now things like feats, Weapon masteries, Rogue's Cunning strikes, etc are baseline and add a lot more decision making and things to track where there previously wouldn't be.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Agreed.

However, I have found that most players never learn their characters properly. They often do not even remember to level up until the session starts. They expect the DM to entertain them and just show up to play.

It is rare to find players that really engage.

I understand Clint’s pain. The combat slow down and I’ll bet that part of it is that he had more to manage because the players are not managing it on their end.

I hesitate to say this, but there are simpler fantasy games than D&D 5.5.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Thanks for helping me make my point.

The DM is forced to remember all of it and track it.

Most players will think that managing all aspects of the combat is on the DM, even their own effects.

Then to be honest they should be taught otherwise. If you're playing a game where you character generates effects, it is your responsibility to know how those effects work and to let the DM know.