D&D 5E (2014) Not upgrading? What version of D&D 5e are you sticking with?

[Zardnaar]

I am curious how the 2024 monk holds up against 2014 classes. I've been in the camp that the monk was weak in 2014, is it balanced now, or is it OP against toehr 2014 classes I wonder.

I'm seeing one on action. Its on par with other good strikers.

Bit smoother than say a Paladin, Barbarian and Ranger who spike at certain levels. So more like fighter in that regard.

 

[el-remmen]

Not sure how to vote. I use 2014 5e + whatever I like from all the books after it and all the editions before it. My next campaign will be a homebrew 5e ruleset.

 

[Clint_L]

I am curious how the 2024 monk holds up against 2014 classes. I've been in the camp that the monk was weak in 2014, is it balanced now, or is it OP against toehr 2014 classes I wonder.

Well, every 2024 class is OP against 2014 classes. Maybe not moon Druids. But everyone else.

However, monk from being a consensus bottom tier class to a consensus top tier class.

For those arguing 2014 monk is fine, most players did not agree, and evidently, neither did WotC, since they improved:

Base damage.
Base defence.
Base mobility.
Base resource availability.
Ability to do monk stuff without resources.
Can use dexterity for grappling (this is a MASSIVE improvement for monks; between this, dodge as a bonus action, and deflect attack they are now very capable tanks in certain situations).

But they did nerf stunning strike to one attempt per round. Which is good! Monk is no longer a one trick pony but a true hard hitting skirmisher.

 

[Nikosandros]

Well, every 2024 class is OP against 2014 classes. Maybe not moon Druids. But everyone else.

What do you think about paladins? From reading them, it seems to me that they are less powerful, but more versatile. However, I've not yet played with the 2024 rules.

 

[Zardnaar]

What do you think about paladins? From reading them, it seems to me that they are less powerful, but more versatile. However, I've not yet played with the 2024 rules.

They're more powerful except for nova smiting on every attack.

For exampke they can dual wield and divine favor lost concentration. Level 11 damage boost on all attacks.

Divine favor free damage if pre cast.

 

[Clint_L]

What do you think about paladins? From reading them, it seems to me that they are less powerful, but more versatile. However, I've not yet played with the 2024 rules.

Mastery alone makes them more powerful than their 2014 incarnations. Mastery is a LOT stronger than a lot of folks realize, when you math out the various effects. Martial classes in general got the most buffs; paladins remain a top tier class. Maybe not THE top class, as many felt previously, but still in the conversation. They don't nova quite as hard but their sustained damage is increased.

 

[ECMO3]

I am curious how the 2024 monk holds up against 2014 classes. I've been in the camp that the monk was weak in 2014, is it balanced now, or is it OP against toehr 2014 classes I wonder.

The 2024 Monk is more powerful than any of the 2014 martial classes (casters and non-casters) at nearly every level and better than 2014 full casters at most levels. So yes I would say it is "OP" compared to other 2014 classes.

Compared to other 2024 classes, overall from level 1-20 it is probably the second most powerful martial after the Fighter. If you are only considering combat they are probably the most powerful from 1-20 (the 2024 Fighter is a lot better at social and exploration pillars).

 

[ECMO3]

The -5/+10 feats exist and Monks can't use them really. They get blown out on danage.

Basically they're run in do some damage. They whiff on stunning strike a lot (con saves are the worst to target).

Then the GWM wades in and outright kills something. Better yet the GWM fighter is an archer instead with sharpshooter.

In a white room yea, but I would add the +5/-10 feats are way overated past around level 7 unless your DM lets you buy magic heavy weapons or purposely puts them around just for your characters and at high levels they need to be good magic heavy weapons if you want to keep up, and if a DM does this then they can be OP .... but it is an easy fix!

If you play most published campaigns for example, and don't buff them with extra items, there are only I think 5 magic heavy weapons total in all of the WOTC hard cover campaigns, with most having none at all. And of those only one is Legendary and it is sentient and evil. On the other hand magic daggers and magic staffs are ubiquoutous and they do more damage in the hands of a Monk than they do in any other PC.

When I was DMing and playing the 2014 rules I saw a lot of PCs using GWM and GWM-PAM. Often a Barbarian or a Fighter or a multiclass of those two and almost all of them were disappointed in high level play because when they attack they had the option of swinging their non-magic Glaive or something like a Flametongue Longsword or Staff of Striking.

Bottom line - the -5/+10 GWM great mathematically , but it is downright weak at high tier 2+ if your DM uses random magic items or published campaigns. Same with CBE. Sharpshooter is better though.

 

[jdrakeh]

The next time I run 5e, it'll be Level Up: A5e. Even with the small amount of errata in the PDFs, it's still, IMO, a vastly superior interpretation of the 5e rules compared to anything else on offer. It does a lot of stuff that I really enjoy (and that several people I know had adopted as house rules before Level Up was published). It's just plain good.

 

[Zardnaar]

In a white room yea, but I would add the +5/-10 feats are way overated past around level 7 unless your DM lets you buy magic heavy weapons or purposely puts them around just for your characters and at high levels they need to be good magic heavy weapons if you want to keep up, and if a DM does this then they can be OP .... but it is an easy fix!

If you play most published campaigns for example, and don't buff them with extra items, there are only I think 5 magic heavy weapons total in all of the WOTC hard cover campaigns, with most having none at all. And of those only one is Legendary and it is sentient and evil. On the other hand magic daggers and magic staffs are ubiquoutous and they do more damage in the hands of a Monk than they do in any other PC.

When I was DMing and playing the 2014 rules I saw a lot of PCs using GWM and GWM-PAM. Often a Barbarian or a Fighter or a multiclass of those two and almost all of them were disappointed in high level play because when they attack they had the option of swinging their non-magic Glaive or something like a Flametongue Longsword or Staff of Striking.

Bottom line - the -5/+10 GWM great mathematically , but it is downright weak at high tier 2+ if your DM uses random magic items or published campaigns. Same with CBE. Sharpshooter is better though.

Yup published adventures long sword it.

5.5 lake of magic weapons in official sources makes a few WM bad.