Notes from Green Ronin seminar

[Akrasia]

I can understand that 3.5 may have split the market, but I don't think the answer is to split it further. There is no guarentee that 4e will be OGL, but that doesn't affect anything, since the current license will always be available. "We're changing the system because we don't want to be left behind when the system changes" doesn't strike me as useful in the long run.

I'm not sure what your point here is.

(1.) The existing OGL is there forever. So games like M&M, C&C, True20, etc. can use it without worry -- they're effectively independent games (they do not require the PH, are not tied to 3e, etc.).

(2.) The d20 license is not there forever. It can be modified as WotC deems appropriate (and WotC has made it more restrictive in recent years). So it makes sense for companies to reduce their production of d20 stuff, and focus on OGL materials, since the latter are not subject to WotC whim.

(3.) If Wotc produces 4e, and does not include it under an OGL, then that wipes out the possibility of any 3rd party 'd20' style products being produced for it (at least without making special arrangements with WotC, likely including fees, etc.). Products produced under a previous OGL are unaffected (e.g. M&M, etc.).

(4.) Since many/most gamers will feel the need to 'upgrade' to 4e, and if 4e is not OGL, then this will wipe out those companies that have not positioned themselves for this eventuality.

(5.) Hence many companies (GR, Mongoose) are moving away from d20 products, and are instead either producing OGL games (True20, M&M, Conan) or entirely independent games (Warhammer, Runequest).

 

[The Shaman]

Next mythic business is Damnation Decade, it's our 2nd D20 modern campaign setting. It's 70s SciFi, bit of horror movies. Imagine a world in which every bad scifi TV show is real. (Soylent Green, Logan's Run, MurderBall, etc, and make a campaign setting). It's really fun. The cover has domed cities, flared trousers, Dick Nixon on the cover. If we can work it out, it will be in fact, made of people.

Okay, that's kinda freaky...my new Modern game...

I feel like I've been mind-probed...

 

[Vocenoctum]

I'm not sure what your point here is.

(4.) Since many/most gamers will feel the need to 'upgrade' to 4e, and if 4e is not OGL, then this will wipe out those companies that have not positioned themselves for this eventuality.

(5.) Hence many companies (GR, Mongoose) are moving away from d20 products, and are instead either producing OGL games (True20, M&M, Conan) or entirely independent games (Warhammer, Runequest).

Many companies are afraid that a closed 4e will mean folks move to those systems, so they're making people move systems now, instead of in this eventually maybe closed 4e timeline.

"We think houses are going to be destroyed, so we're razing them all now to prepare for it."

A lot of these Alternate systems are just fragmenting the fanbases now, instead of when WotC may eventualy do something in the future sometime.

 

[William Ronald]

I would hope that 4.0 is not released for a few more years, and that D20 would continue. Of course, the decisions ultimately lie with Hasbro. I suspect there mi9ght be a fair amount of grumbling about a new edition.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Really? I hadn't realized that -- that's a strange way to set up the license, IMO.

It means that D&D is here to stay and it's one of the reasons why so many people support Ryan Dancy even though there's been some debate about his past actions.

It also means that d20 publishers can keep doing what they're doing. True 20, C&C, Iron Heroes. They all owe a debt to the OGL.

 

[Sleepy Voiced]

No mention of Dragonfist. That makes me sad.

 

[Ranger REG]

I think it would be a mistake of major proportions to totally scrap D20 (OGL is more arguable). Other publishers taking on the risk to create supplementary material for your corebooks is a win-win proposition for WotC, other companies (or, at least, it can be, depending on the material and the amount of it out there) and, most especially, the players.

Yeah, but not many devoted* D&D fans want outside products. They simply want D&D products from the current maker of D&D.

And some d20 gamers are glad third-party publishers have deviated away from D&D which they think is putting their favorite d20 products on a tight leash, like Spycraft.

* My way of saying "closed-minded & one-tracked."

 

[Akrasia]

Many companies are afraid that a closed 4e will mean folks move to those systems, so they're making people move systems now, instead of in this eventually maybe closed 4e timeline.

"We think houses are going to be destroyed, so we're razing them all now to prepare for it."

A lot of these Alternate systems are just fragmenting the fanbases now, instead of when WotC may eventualy do something in the future sometime.

(1.) If there is demand for different products (e.g. M&M, Conan, C&C, etc.), this fragmentation is good -- it is meeting demand.

(2.) If WotC announces that 4e will not be OGL 5 months before it is published, most companies will not have time to adjust, and will go under.

In short, I think the people at the head of companies like GR and Mongoose are doing the smart thing, given the risks involved.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah, but not many devoted* D&D fans want outside products. They simply want D&D products from the current maker of D&D.

Yeah, and some people willingly buy Britney Spears' greatest hits album. Silly people will always be out there.

There are plenty of D&D players who aren't silly, though, who have benefitted from the D20ization of D&D. Green Ronin, et al., may not be buying Ferraris, but they're doing well enough to keep on producing more material, so someone's buying that stuff and, presumably, enjoying it.

I know I certainly am.

And some d20 gamers are glad third-party publishers have deviated away from D&D which they think is putting their favorite d20 products on a tight leash, like Spycraft.

Understandable.

I still think it would be a mistake for WotC to cut off outside publishers from voluntarily taking on the highest risk D&D-compatible projects that require the purchase of the WotC core books (D20, in other words).

Of course, I also wouldn't have written OGL to be a license in perpetuity, since that just creates competition, IMO, that might not have existed if they thought Hasbro's lawyers would have taken them to court for an expensive (if winnable) fight.

 

[Ranger REG]

There are plenty of D&D players who aren't silly, though,

Yeah but there are so few of us.