Now you're thinking with Portals! Abusing Arcane Gate

[helium3]

Important thing to remember that being pushed into a pit square triggers a saving throw. The word "can" would normally imply that it's a choice to go through the portal. But the point of bull rushing or sliding them into the square would be to specifically target the portal. Therefore, the enemy would be entitled a saving throw to avoid being knocked into the pit, just as if it were a normal pit entrance. Success means they fall prone at the portal edge.

At least, that's how I'd adjudicate it.

Well, technically the rule specifically calls out pits and precipices and then references the section on falling damage, where the rule is essentially re-printed. It never calls out or even opens the door to any other negative effect that a character or creature might presumably be forced into or through.

Though I'd have no problem with a house rule stating "any forced movement into a square that would then cause a victim to get hit with a negative effect can attempt a save to fall prone at the squares boundary" the RAW folks would be quite safe in only allowing this save at a Pit or Precipice.

I don't like how much this edition seems to rely on common sense rather than written rules to cover the "corner cases" or whatever they're called. Seems like a great way to start arguments in game groups that have preexisting drama.

Oh. And my new favorite use of Arcane Gate? Use it to flood something.

 

[Tony Vargas]

double post

 

[Tony Vargas]

Seems like a minor issue. Hazards can exist on any battlefield. So you can create a falling hazard, it's still a hazard to everyone. Aren't there lots of wizard spells that create hazardous area effects?

At least you didn't posit creating the gates one above the other, and dropping someone into the lower gate, so that he falls perpetually until you dismiss the spell after he's reached 'terminal velocity.'

 

[Victim]

I disagree. IMO, they're two different uses of the word can.

Forced movement automatically moves you into a space, but as I read the portal description, it is the creature's choice whether to move through the portal or past it.

To put it another way, as I read it, a creature could willingly enter the portal square and choose not to use the portal, if so desired. If a creature can stand in or move through the square, of it's own free will, without triggering the portal, then I'd say that by RAW you cannot force a creature through the portal using forced movement.

I agree. It's the creature's option to use the portal. If you push someone into a pit, it's not really their choice to fall.

 

[MindWanderer]

Oh. And my new favorite use of Arcane Gate? Use it to flood something.

Also doesn't technically work. Creatures can pass through, but not unattended objects or environmental effects.

 

[LowSpine]

The feel of the description suggests that the portal is from square to square - in other words ground location to ground location.

Trying to put the portal up in the air seems to be 'not in the spirit' of the description.

This is how I would rule it. Doing otherwise is just 'obtaining a peculalary advantage' by rules lawyering.

The defence rests m'lord.

 

[Ecaiki]

"In layman's terms, speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out."
Because GLaDOS is amusing, in that twisted kinda way.

Without reading the spell I couldn't make a solid decision, however it sounds to me like it links two spaces like a door between two rooms. So I'd most likely allow people to be forced through it. After all if the PC's can do it... well then they are going to loath the enemies who return the favour.

 

[Jack Fremont]

Hows about we get back to the intended purpose of the thread? This was meant to be a discussion on tactics to avoid getting thrown in and ways to make this work really well. Until I'm proven wrong with supported evidence beyond semantics on the word "can" I'm going to assume this tactic works. Not that I'd ever use it mind you, this was suppose to be an exercise in fun.

Could you guys imagine this spell combined with the warlords Own The Battlefield power? For those of you not familiar, Own the battefield is a high level warlord lets you slide every enemy in a 10 square close burst a number of squares equal to your int mod. It would be like the BBEG asking someone to take a few steps to the left so he can drop the trapdoor under them, but on a mass scale of hilarity.