D&D 5E Obvious synergies you never realized

[NotAYakk]

3 you seem to be forgetting to apply that -5 to hit in your math. That's a pretty important factor.

The situation mentioned advantage.

At most levels with advantage, -5 doesn't hurt that much.

At low levels vs higher AC targets, ya.

Assume level 4 and 16 stat for +6 to hit.
Like 15 AC at +1 to hit is about 55% hit chance, vs 84% without -5. 84/55 is +50% dpr.

Hit level 8 with 18 str and a +1 weapon and it is +4/+9 or 75% vs 88%, a mere 7/8/(3/4) or 17% dpr increase.

And that is ignoring crits (which help the gwm).

 

[Sacrosanct]

The situation mentioned advantage.

At most levels with advantage, -5 doesn't hurt that much.

At low levels vs higher AC targets, ya.

Assume level 4 and 16 stat for +6 to hit.
Like 15 AC at +1 to hit is about 55% hit chance, vs 84% without -5. 84/55 is +50% dpr.

Hit level 8 with 18 str and a +1 weapon and it is +4/+9 or 75% vs 88%, a mere 7/8/(3/4) or 17% dpr increase.

And that is ignoring crits (which help the gwm).

You don't always have advantage. And even if you did, a -5 is still significant. You can hit ACs without that penalty that you never could no matter how many d20s you rolled with the penalty. ACs 5 higher to be exact.

 

[Richards]

Two casters, one with Wall of Force, and another with a spell (like Wall of Fire or similar) that does damage every round that you are standing in a certain place. Wall of Force is already great, but it's mostly a divide and conquer spell, since you can't cast through it. But if you have an ally first create a danger zone which you can then trap someone in, they just... take damage every round for ten rounds and can't do anything. And they didn't even get a save.

My players put this tactic to good effect in a troll burrow, the sorcerer casting wall of fire in a narrow passageway filled with trolls, setting them all ablaze. Then, when they rushed blindly in a panic to the end of the passageway, they found it had been sealed off by a wall of force cast by the wizard. By the time they'd turned around and tried making it back the way they had come they had all been burned to a crisp.

Johnathan

 

[TwoSix]

Not really. Don't forget that that's using the Bonus Action (which competes with the BA from Shield Mastery) and you still only get one Reaction. Remember too that Advantage is of less benefit to this Fighter than one using one of the -5 / +10 feats.

Let's do the maths. Add in a Reaction attack of 6-11 damage and your spear and shield fighter is doing an average of 24.5 damage. Compare that with a Fighter who's got one of the -5 / +10 feats, who attacks with a 2H sword for 2d6 + 3 + 10 (20 average) or 60 HP if she gets all three attacks (slightly more with the appropriate Fighting Style, actually). Remember also that Action Surge does not give an extra Bonus Action or Reaction, so damage only goes up to 33 HP versus 80 for the 2H sword. That's a big trade-off for +2 AC.

Edit: consider too the Rogue who lands three Sneak Attacks (Attack, Bonus, Reaction). Three attacks at a base of 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 is 30 HP per round. So no, your spear & shield fighter is not OP.

You're not wrong (although damage calculations that don't factor in hit rate are useless, unless you specifically call out that the accuracy is the same across all test cases, which is not the case here). Any weapon-based attacker without a -5/+10 feat is going to fall behind in damage; realistically, we've known that since 2014.

That doesn't mean that PAM isn't a great feat for a 1st level human fighter. Getting that bonus attack with stat mod to damage is a big deal when you have little competition for your bonus action. If you have a DM that would allow you to retrain your fighting style (not an uncommon grant among DMs I've seen), than you can even swap to PAM/GWM with a glaive when you feel your damage is starting to drop.

I don't know if this is an unobvious synergy, but GWM is actually a really strong feat with a 1st level VHuman. Doing roughly 20 damage on a hit, even if you miss quite a bit, will straight up drop a lot of CR 1 creatures, which means you'll be proccing the bonus action cleave pretty frequently, at a time when you have normally little use for your bonus action.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

I remembered a couple other things, these aren't "builds" per se, more just fun interactions I've noticed, but I think they can fit in this thread.

With Hex, you can curse an enemy casters spellcasting ability checks. Now normally, this doesn't come up a lot, but if they have Counterspell, you can neuter their ability to mess with your team's spellcasting with said Hex, and also get some free damage on them. You can go non-Eldritch Knight Fighter, take Magic Initiate and grab Hex, and help out your casters while using a concentration that usually isn't being used.

Again relating to Counterspell, the spell Glibness sets a floor for you Charisma checks. (I believe around 15?) If your a Charisma caster, this can make your Counterspell rolls be damn near unstoppable, especially with the Bard's Jack of all Trades giving you an extra +1 to +3 to the check, meaning that your floor for a Counterspell is 23. More than enough to stuff every spell thrown your way without having to use higher level spell slots to guarantee a counterspell.

 

[RogueJK]

More than enough to stuff every spell thrown your way without having to use higher level spell slots to guarantee a counterspell.

Well, I should hope so...

Glibness is an 8th level spell that lasts for an hour. So a 15th+ level Bard who dedicates one of their few highly useful Magical Secrets selections to Counterspell, and then burns their sole 8th level slot while prepping for an upcoming fight, plus then burns through multiple 3rd+ level slots during the fight on casting repeated Counterspells, ought to be able to stuff damn every spell it attempts to counter. That's a lot of investment of powerful resources being thrown at a very specific purpose by a high level character.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Well, I should hope so...

Glibness is an 8th level spell that lasts for an hour. So a 15th+ level Bard who dedicates one of their few highly useful Magical Secrets selections to Counterspell, and then burns their sole 8th level slot while prepping for an upcoming fight, plus then burns through multiple 3rd+ level slots during the fight on casting repeated Counterspells, ought to be able to stuff damn every spell it attempts to counter. That's a lot of investment of powerful resources being thrown at a very specific purpose by a high level character, and their expenditure ought to be worthwhile.

Is stopping a Wish with a third level spell slot worth it to you?

 

[RogueJK]

Certainly. What I'm saying is that's a very specific high-level build and resource investment, so it's good that it's basically guaranteed, otherwise it wouldn't be worth it.

(And technically, it's a 3rd level spell slot and an 8th level spell slot. Still worth it, provided you know you're going up against a high level caster within the next hour.)

 

[Sacrosanct]

Probably not the most optimized, but shortly after the game came out, my shadow monk took magic initiate at level 1 (variant human) to get hex. Worked pretty well, especially in longer combats.

 

[NotAYakk]

Certainly. What I'm saying is that's a very specific high-level build and resource investment, so it's good that it's basically guaranteed, otherwise it wouldn't be worth it.

(And technically, it's a 3rd level spell slot and an 8th level spell slot. Still worth it, provided you know you're going up against a high level caster within the next hour.)

Including in the fight. You drop glibness and maybe greater invis and counterspell everything.

As counterspell only has S, a caster without see invis up cannot counter your counterspells. Complete lockdown.